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[Music]

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there's a whole fleet of look on the sa

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oh my gosh they're all going against the

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it was basically a cube with inside of

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sphere where the points of the cube

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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so this isn't anything that just is

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limited to the united states it's a

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hi everyone and welcome back to that ufo

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podcast my name is andy and delighted to

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welcome on to the show with me today

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retired u.s air force author of over 100

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books and ufo investigator kevin randall

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kevin welcome to the podcast

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well thank you very much but i do need

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to make one quick correction i'm a

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retired army officer ah

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my bad do you know what

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not really because i did spend some time

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in the air force as well so

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do you know where that is when i've seen

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usaf or i i think i just automatically

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go into uh that on the the book but yeah

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that's thank you for correcting me hal

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and i think i get away with it being

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british as well don't i that we're we're

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not as offey with the american military

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as perhaps someone on the other side of

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the pond would be uh but kevin you've

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got quite an interesting background let

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alone what you've been involved in over

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the decades in terms of ufos

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what's your your journey being like into

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ufology in ufos was it something you had

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an interest in as a child or was it

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something that came much later

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well i always blame my mother for my

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interest

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she was a fan of science fiction which

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is about alien visitation and

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interstellar flight and alien

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civilizations and that sort of thing

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and when i was a youngster and this

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dates me she took me to the movie earth

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versus the flying saucers

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and that kind of sparked my interest

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because of course flying saucers were

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talking about alien civilizations

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interstellar flight and alien visitation

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so it's sort of the same thing moving it

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from the realm of science fiction into

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the realm of um

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reality

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uh so that kind of sparked my interest

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back in the 1960s when i got very

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interested in ufos

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the the attitude was that well we just

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they're just blobs of light in the

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distance they're indistinct objects

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they're they're things that can't really

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be identified because of

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those sorts of problems and a friend of

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mine's mother had had a ufo sighting

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flying saucer signing so i asked him

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if i could meet with her and she of

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course agreed and the only question i

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really wanted answered

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was was it a distinct object and she

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said it was an object hovering about 200

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feet over the barn they lived on a ranch

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in south dakota if i remember correctly

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and she said it had very distinct edges

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very very sharp crisp edges so it wasn't

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something

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seen in the distance it wasn't a blob of

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light it was a structured craft she had

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seen

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and that

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sort of sparked my

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investigative nature as well getting the

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answers for myself

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and that of course has carried on

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since since that time i've worked on

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enough a lot of cases and done enough a

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lot of in-field work

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chased down an awful lot of

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sightings and interviewed an awful lot

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of witnesses to ufos

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and

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that sort of thing my military career of

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course

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bans decades as well i started out as a

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helicopter pilot

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i learned that the army the united

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states army was training high school

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graduates

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as helicopter pilots and so i joined the

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army to learn to become a helicopter

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pilot and was sent to vietnam as a pilot

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in at 19 was an aircraft commander spent

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a tour in vietnam came back got out of

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the army went to college got a degree

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and took rotc now the the thing is in

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the american military

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those of us who are high school

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graduates and went through that program

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were appointed ward officers so we were

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the lowest ranking officer but we

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weren't really commissioned

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which made us eligible to take rotc the

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reserve officers training course so

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while i was in college i took the last

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two years of colleges and rotc and was

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commissioned as an officer in the air

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force so i spent a number of years in

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the air forces

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in a number of different roles mainly as

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an intelligence officer

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for them in a number of different places

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got out of the army after 9 11 i joined

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the iowa national guard which is an army

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unit as an intelligence officer and

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eventually retired from that as a

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lieutenant colonel having spent a tour

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in iraq so i applied all that knowledge

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i gained as an intelligence officer to

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the investigations that i conducted

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specifically with roswell i was invited

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into the roswell case

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by the center for ufo studies because

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they knew of my military background and

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a lot of the witnesses that we would be

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talking to had military backgrounds or

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retired military officers and they

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thought i'd be able to relate with them

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more and understand the lingo a little

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bit better than someone who had not

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served in the military so that kind of

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was the genesis of my

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um invitation into the roswell case with

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don schmidt and we spent a great deal of

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time in roswell new mexico talking to

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witnesses ferreting out new witnesses

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and

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getting recordings both

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video and audio recordings of a

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large number of witnesses talked to some

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witnesses i was the only one who talked

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to a couple of the witnesses

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the way things worked out

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um that one easily springs to mind he

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was a provost marshal in roswell in 1947

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provost marshall being like the chief of

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police on the air base he was

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responsible for security and that sort

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of thing

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and i talked to him a number of times

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and the one thing that sticks in my mind

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talking to him and some of it was

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recorded and some of it was not given

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the circumstances but i was talking to

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him about uh

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the case and i said are we following the

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right path and he said what do you mean

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and i said well we think it's

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extraterrestrial and i said let me put

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it this way it's not the wrong path so

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in essence confirmed the

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extraterrestrial nature of the roswell

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case and we had a number of officers

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high ranking officers in roswell 1947

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confirmed that sort of a

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an event the single

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exception being one of the meeting guy

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named beryl claw who is a retired

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colonel and he said no nothing like that

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happened he's the only member of general

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raymond's staff that we were colonel

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raymond i'm sorry colonel blanchard

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staff that we were able to talk to

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who denied anything happened all the

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others that we talked to said yeah it

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was something something extra crustal

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and this goes from the highest ranking

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officers on the base down to the lowest

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ranking enlisted soldiers on the base

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that we were able to talk to privates

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and corporals and the buck sergeants who

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said essentially the same thing so we

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had a wide range of that sort of thing

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so that kind of

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gave you a background of my interest in

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ufos and and from there of course it

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expanded and i was doing

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a number of books i'd been writing ufo

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articles

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and now i i say i went to college on

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what i called the saga scholarship saga

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was a men's magazine not like playboy or

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penthouse but it it just was articles

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that catered to men and there might be a

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scantily clad picture of a woman in the

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magazine once in a while but it really

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didn't that wasn't the focus it was the

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articles geared toward men

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and they paid enough money i was able to

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write an article a semester for the

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magazine and get paid for it that paid

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my tuition except for ten dollars

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so i i say i went to to college on a on

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the saga scholarship and i collected the

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um magazine articles into a book later

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on in 1989 and added some new material

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to that and then the second ufo book i

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did was on roswell and from there it's

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expanded out i've done 25 or 28 ufo

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books so i've done a lot of research

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into it and i understand what's going on

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in the world of ufos

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that's an incredible thanks for the

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backstory because it's a wonderful

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history of put into just a couple of

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minutes they are almost six or seven

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decades

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after all that time what is still

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driving you to write about the subject

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of ufos because there's so many in this

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topic and in a far shorter time become

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disillusioned or you know they fall out

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of love with it but you've kept that

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that passion to keep writing even now

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one of my goals in life was to be a

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writer

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and you mentioned i've i published i

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lost count of 125 books i by it's

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somewhere over that number

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but it's science fiction it's action

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adventure and it's ufos and

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uh so i've always wanted to be a writer

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so this is one way i could express my my

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opinions that way but the subject always

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fascinated me as well and

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i had a good friend um

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wilson bob tucker and those who are into

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science fiction and science fiction

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conventions would know bob tucker

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um

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really good science fiction books but

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never got the kind of publicity that

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isaac asimov or uh ray bradbury got but

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it was an incredible writer

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and

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with with that sort of thing going on um

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we wanted to

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you know

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well the point was that that um

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at one point talking to bob tucker

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is that he explained

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that he was retired from writing and as

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a much younger person i couldn't

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understand that

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why you would retire from writing and

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here i am now at an age commensurate

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with what he was at the time and i'm

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still writing um i have a book due to

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philip mantle called understanding

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roswell actually was doing a number of

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weeks ago i'm a little late on it

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but i it's almost finished now and will

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be in time for the 75th anniversary but

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it's just sort of a drive i just feel

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the the urge to continue writing and uh

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because

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in the last year or so

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actually the last six months i've had to

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do three ufo books i've been requested

278
00:10:22,389 --> 00:10:21,040
to do the books the level land sighting

279
00:10:23,350 --> 00:10:22,399
which we'll talk about i guess a little

280
00:10:25,269 --> 00:10:23,360
later

281
00:10:27,190 --> 00:10:25,279
is what i think of is the second most

282
00:10:29,110 --> 00:10:27,200
important ufo sighting

283
00:10:30,630 --> 00:10:29,120
because of the number of people involved

284
00:10:32,550 --> 00:10:30,640
in the interactions with the environment

285
00:10:33,990 --> 00:10:32,560
but it's just as a story that i wanted

286
00:10:35,430 --> 00:10:34,000
to tell and i think that's the whole

287
00:10:37,430 --> 00:10:35,440
point i continue to want to tell the

288
00:10:40,949 --> 00:10:37,440
story so i just can't see myself

289
00:10:42,790 --> 00:10:40,959
retiring i can see myself slowing down

290
00:10:44,870 --> 00:10:42,800
and

291
00:10:46,949 --> 00:10:44,880
you know publishing fewer books but i

292
00:10:48,630 --> 00:10:46,959
just can't i just can't see a retirement

293
00:10:51,430 --> 00:10:48,640
from so it's kind of the desire to tell

294
00:10:53,350 --> 00:10:51,440
the stories to engage people in things

295
00:10:55,269 --> 00:10:53,360
that interest me and

296
00:10:58,069 --> 00:10:55,279
continue the research into the ufo

297
00:11:00,310 --> 00:10:58,079
phenom until we get a definitive answer

298
00:11:01,990 --> 00:11:00,320
well that passion and drive is is taking

299
00:11:03,269 --> 00:11:02,000
you to write about levelland which we're

300
00:11:05,190 --> 00:11:03,279
of course going to talk about and i'd

301
00:11:07,990 --> 00:11:05,200
like to do that now um the events of

302
00:11:11,030 --> 00:11:08,000
levelland at west texas i believe it was

303
00:11:12,949 --> 00:11:11,040
november 1957. can you tell us a little

304
00:11:16,470 --> 00:11:12,959
bit if you remember when you first heard

305
00:11:18,310 --> 00:11:16,480
about this particular event

306
00:11:21,269 --> 00:11:18,320
it's always been

307
00:11:23,509 --> 00:11:21,279
a an interest of mine because of the

308
00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:23,519
nature of the of the of the sightings it

309
00:11:26,470 --> 00:11:24,720
was

310
00:11:28,870 --> 00:11:26,480
people at a number of

311
00:11:30,949 --> 00:11:28,880
different locations independently

312
00:11:32,710 --> 00:11:30,959
reporting to the sheriff

313
00:11:34,470 --> 00:11:32,720
this thing had come close to the ground

314
00:11:35,910 --> 00:11:34,480
or landed on the ground near the car

315
00:11:37,829 --> 00:11:35,920
installed the engine and put out the

316
00:11:39,590 --> 00:11:37,839
headlights and that sort of thing and

317
00:11:41,590 --> 00:11:39,600
looking at that whole group of sightings

318
00:11:43,750 --> 00:11:41,600
in november of 1957 so i've been

319
00:11:46,069 --> 00:11:43,760
interested in for a long time it was

320
00:11:48,470 --> 00:11:46,079
only recently that

321
00:11:51,430 --> 00:11:48,480
i began to understand the importance of

322
00:11:53,750 --> 00:11:51,440
it a fellow named don burlinson

323
00:11:56,069 --> 00:11:53,760
who lives in roswell ronaldo being

324
00:11:57,509 --> 00:11:56,079
three hours by car from level land level

325
00:11:59,110 --> 00:11:57,519
and for those who're trying to look on a

326
00:12:01,509 --> 00:11:59,120
map is right near lubbock texas in the

327
00:12:03,430 --> 00:12:01,519
panhandle in texas so if you can't find

328
00:12:05,430 --> 00:12:03,440
level and just go a little bit west of

329
00:12:06,230 --> 00:12:05,440
of lubbock and that's where level land

330
00:12:08,550 --> 00:12:06,240
is

331
00:12:10,389 --> 00:12:08,560
had um interviewed the widow of the

332
00:12:12,629 --> 00:12:10,399
sheriff back in

333
00:12:14,389 --> 00:12:12,639
around the year 2000

334
00:12:16,389 --> 00:12:14,399
and she told him some things that were

335
00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:16,399
very interesting to me and kind of

336
00:12:20,870 --> 00:12:18,720
inspired me to look a little bit deeper

337
00:12:23,269 --> 00:12:20,880
into it one of the things i discovered

338
00:12:25,670 --> 00:12:23,279
is if you look at the air force file the

339
00:12:27,190 --> 00:12:25,680
project blue book file on level land

340
00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:27,200
they interview the sheriff whose name is

341
00:12:31,509 --> 00:12:28,480
weir klim

342
00:12:34,310 --> 00:12:31,519
a name i positively hate i wish it was

343
00:12:36,310 --> 00:12:34,320
something like tom collins or well jim

344
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:36,320
beam for that matter or james bond some

345
00:12:41,269 --> 00:12:39,200
good good name not weir clem

346
00:12:42,790 --> 00:12:41,279
but he um

347
00:12:45,030 --> 00:12:42,800
had told the air force according to

348
00:12:46,310 --> 00:12:45,040
their file well he eventually was

349
00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:46,320
interested enough because there had been

350
00:12:49,030 --> 00:12:48,079
enough sightings been reported to him

351
00:12:50,470 --> 00:12:49,040
that they were going to go out and look

352
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:50,480
for it and he saw the object in the

353
00:12:53,910 --> 00:12:52,399
distance he said it was just a streak of

354
00:12:55,910 --> 00:12:53,920
light in sight for two seconds that's

355
00:12:57,750 --> 00:12:55,920
what it says in the air force file i

356
00:12:59,430 --> 00:12:57,760
found documentation printed in

357
00:13:00,790 --> 00:12:59,440
newspapers prior to the air force

358
00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:00,800
investigation

359
00:13:06,870 --> 00:13:03,600
where he was talking about seeing a

360
00:13:08,710 --> 00:13:06,880
oval-shaped object that was bright red

361
00:13:10,470 --> 00:13:08,720
and then later on a fella named don

362
00:13:12,710 --> 00:13:10,480
berliner yes there's a lot of dawns in

363
00:13:15,509 --> 00:13:12,720
this conversation don berliner in the

364
00:13:17,190 --> 00:13:15,519
mid 1970s talked to the sheriff talk to

365
00:13:18,150 --> 00:13:17,200
sheriff clem

366
00:13:20,150 --> 00:13:18,160
and clem

367
00:13:21,750 --> 00:13:20,160
again said that he'd seen the object so

368
00:13:23,269 --> 00:13:21,760
we've got him saying it prior to the air

369
00:13:24,629 --> 00:13:23,279
force investigation and then somewhat

370
00:13:26,150 --> 00:13:24,639
later after the air force had written

371
00:13:27,670 --> 00:13:26,160
down what he had to say

372
00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:27,680
the other thing that came out and we're

373
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:29,920
back to don burlinson now he learned

374
00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:31,440
that the mechanic for the sheriff's

375
00:13:36,550 --> 00:13:34,720
department was still alive in in 2000

376
00:13:38,629 --> 00:13:36,560
and interviewed him and said that the

377
00:13:40,790 --> 00:13:38,639
sheriff had come into

378
00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:40,800
the shop and wanted his car checked out

379
00:13:44,389 --> 00:13:42,160
the next day

380
00:13:46,310 --> 00:13:44,399
the only reason the sheriff would have

381
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:46,320
had his car checked out the next day is

382
00:13:49,509 --> 00:13:47,600
if he'd gotten close enough to the

383
00:13:51,430 --> 00:13:49,519
object that it stalled it

384
00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:51,440
so we have documentation saying get

385
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:53,920
close enough to it to see an object

386
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:55,519
and then we have information that sex

387
00:13:59,750 --> 00:13:58,320
his car was stalled now what what makes

388
00:14:02,710 --> 00:13:59,760
this even more important some of the

389
00:14:04,710 --> 00:14:02,720
other sightings of in that short time

390
00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:04,720
frame of two and a half hours in level

391
00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:05,680
land

392
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:08,720
is that he was in sort of a mini convoy

393
00:14:12,629 --> 00:14:10,079
he was in one of the sheriff's

394
00:14:14,870 --> 00:14:12,639
department car with a deputy behind him

395
00:14:16,629 --> 00:14:14,880
was a state police car i think it's

396
00:14:18,470 --> 00:14:16,639
i think then it was still it was called

397
00:14:20,629 --> 00:14:18,480
the department uh the texas department

398
00:14:22,790 --> 00:14:20,639
of public safety that's what it was when

399
00:14:25,189 --> 00:14:22,800
i lived there in the 1960s and i think

400
00:14:27,350 --> 00:14:25,199
it was that in 1957 so now you have

401
00:14:28,949 --> 00:14:27,360
state police involved and behind behind

402
00:14:30,389 --> 00:14:28,959
them was a third car with air force

403
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:30,399
officers in it

404
00:14:34,230 --> 00:14:32,160
this tells me that they got close enough

405
00:14:36,550 --> 00:14:34,240
that their cars were stalled

406
00:14:38,629 --> 00:14:36,560
and that tells me the air force officers

407
00:14:40,470 --> 00:14:38,639
observed the phenomenon of the car

408
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:40,480
engines being stalled and the object the

409
00:14:44,150 --> 00:14:42,720
bright red glowing object

410
00:14:45,829 --> 00:14:44,160
being close enough that they could see

411
00:14:47,350 --> 00:14:45,839
what it was

412
00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:47,360
but there's nothing in the air force

413
00:14:50,629 --> 00:14:49,199
file that talks about an investigation

414
00:14:52,150 --> 00:14:50,639
or interrogation of the air force

415
00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:52,160
officers involved

416
00:14:56,550 --> 00:14:54,320
all we have are six

417
00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:56,560
different interviews conducted

418
00:15:00,069 --> 00:14:58,320
two or three days later by a staff

419
00:15:01,350 --> 00:15:00,079
sergeant that came down from colorado

420
00:15:02,150 --> 00:15:01,360
springs

421
00:15:04,150 --> 00:15:02,160
and

422
00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:04,160
interviewed the sheriff a couple of the

423
00:15:06,389 --> 00:15:05,360
witnesses

424
00:15:07,829 --> 00:15:06,399
and

425
00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:07,839
let it go at that didn't do a

426
00:15:13,030 --> 00:15:10,160
comprehensive investigation that was it

427
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:13,040
now it years later many years later i

428
00:15:17,430 --> 00:15:15,440
was able to find the names of many many

429
00:15:19,590 --> 00:15:17,440
people who were involved based not only

430
00:15:21,590 --> 00:15:19,600
on what the air force report said the

431
00:15:23,430 --> 00:15:21,600
air force documents say but the

432
00:15:25,910 --> 00:15:23,440
newspaper files that we could go through

433
00:15:27,189 --> 00:15:25,920
and we'd find witnesses in there that

434
00:15:27,910 --> 00:15:27,199
were interviewed

435
00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:27,920
the

436
00:15:33,269 --> 00:15:31,120
research organization which was a

437
00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:33,279
civilian organization was involved in

438
00:15:37,590 --> 00:15:36,160
the investigation in 1957 as was the

439
00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:37,600
national investigations committee on

440
00:15:40,310 --> 00:15:39,040
aerial phenomena which is also a

441
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:40,320
civilian organization based in

442
00:15:44,389 --> 00:15:42,800
washington dc they had one of their

443
00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:44,399
investigators out there talking to

444
00:15:49,910 --> 00:15:46,240
people so looking at all these documents

445
00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:49,920
created at that time we were able to

446
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:51,440
find the names of many many other people

447
00:15:56,790 --> 00:15:54,480
who were involved the sheriff said

448
00:15:58,949 --> 00:15:56,800
that he had received dozens of phone

449
00:16:01,509 --> 00:15:58,959
calls about this which would suggest

450
00:16:03,590 --> 00:16:01,519
additional witnesses as well so it's a

451
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:03,600
it's a case with many many witnesses at

452
00:16:07,749 --> 00:16:05,279
independent locations reporting the same

453
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:07,759
phenomenon the sheriff also at least

454
00:16:12,230 --> 00:16:10,800
according to the the the wife the widow

455
00:16:14,949 --> 00:16:12,240
who said that there had been landing

456
00:16:16,550 --> 00:16:14,959
traces on a on a ranch outside of town i

457
00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:16,560
think it was north of town

458
00:16:20,389 --> 00:16:18,000
burlington

459
00:16:22,150 --> 00:16:20,399
went there and interviewed the the widow

460
00:16:23,430 --> 00:16:22,160
of the rancher but the rancher's

461
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:23,440
daughter as well and the rancher and the

462
00:16:27,189 --> 00:16:24,880
daughter went out and saw the burned

463
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:27,199
area as did the sheriff so now we have

464
00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:29,440
landing traces on the ground which had

465
00:16:33,269 --> 00:16:31,920
they been researched properly in 1957

466
00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:33,279
might have presented us with some very

467
00:16:36,949 --> 00:16:35,600
interesting data we know that it

468
00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:36,959
interacted with the environment by

469
00:16:41,030 --> 00:16:39,040
stalling the car engines and feeling

470
00:16:43,030 --> 00:16:41,040
filling radios with static and putting

471
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:43,040
out the headlights and when the object

472
00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:44,720
left left and the cars could be

473
00:16:47,829 --> 00:16:46,560
restarted and there was only one case

474
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:47,839
where the guy said the car started

475
00:16:52,389 --> 00:16:50,240
spontaneously but the cars could be

476
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:52,399
started so they they stopped working at

477
00:16:56,710 --> 00:16:54,240
the close approach of the ufo and began

478
00:16:57,829 --> 00:16:56,720
working again when the ufo was gone so

479
00:17:00,230 --> 00:16:57,839
we've got an interaction with the

480
00:17:01,829 --> 00:17:00,240
environment and we have many independent

481
00:17:03,910 --> 00:17:01,839
witnesses think of the data we have

482
00:17:06,309 --> 00:17:03,920
could could have collected at that time

483
00:17:07,829 --> 00:17:06,319
had nycap not got involved in with the

484
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:07,839
air force in an argument over the number

485
00:17:11,429 --> 00:17:09,600
of witnesses so the air force

486
00:17:13,750 --> 00:17:11,439
successfully diverted the conversation

487
00:17:15,429 --> 00:17:13,760
from what happened to how many witnesses

488
00:17:17,270 --> 00:17:15,439
there really were

489
00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:17,280
now am i right and correct me here that

490
00:17:22,150 --> 00:17:20,240
uh dr alan heineck was involved and this

491
00:17:24,230 --> 00:17:22,160
was before blue book was official it was

492
00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:24,240
project sign he was a consultant at the

493
00:17:28,710 --> 00:17:26,880
time and he was involved in uh

494
00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:28,720
explaining the event as being prozac but

495
00:17:32,230 --> 00:17:30,400
if i'm correct he wasn't actually

496
00:17:35,110 --> 00:17:32,240
involved in investigation and had only

497
00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:35,120
seen that air force report

498
00:17:38,870 --> 00:17:36,720
heineken was not involved directly with

499
00:17:40,789 --> 00:17:38,880
the level on case heine came on board as

500
00:17:42,750 --> 00:17:40,799
a scientific consultant to i think

501
00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:42,760
project sign as you said which was been

502
00:17:47,909 --> 00:17:45,760
1948 and he continued in that mission

503
00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:47,919
almost through the end of uh project

504
00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:50,160
blue book the 22 years for assigned to

505
00:17:54,070 --> 00:17:52,080
grudge to blue book

506
00:17:55,270 --> 00:17:54,080
but he had nothing really to do with

507
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:55,280
level land

508
00:17:59,510 --> 00:17:56,960
the investigator the official

509
00:18:00,549 --> 00:17:59,520
investigator was a staff sergeant norman

510
00:18:02,390 --> 00:18:00,559
barth

511
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:02,400
who came out of an air intelligence

512
00:18:06,789 --> 00:18:04,559
service squadron in

513
00:18:08,549 --> 00:18:06,799
colorado springs and flew down to reese

514
00:18:10,549 --> 00:18:08,559
air force base at reese air force base

515
00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:10,559
being in lubbock and then it's just a

516
00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:12,960
short drive to level land from there

517
00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:14,480
so they didn't spend a lot of money on

518
00:18:18,549 --> 00:18:16,320
on the investigation

519
00:18:20,070 --> 00:18:18,559
but the official conclusion which is

520
00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:20,080
still registered in the project blue

521
00:18:23,430 --> 00:18:22,240
book files today and the master index it

522
00:18:25,270 --> 00:18:23,440
was created

523
00:18:26,710 --> 00:18:25,280
is it was ball lightning

524
00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:26,720
well anybody who knows anything about

525
00:18:30,150 --> 00:18:28,559
ball lightning knows that there's still

526
00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:30,160
an argument about whether there is such

527
00:18:34,310 --> 00:18:32,080
a thing as ball lightning

528
00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:34,320
but more importantly the descriptions of

529
00:18:40,230 --> 00:18:36,640
it is something that's very small

530
00:18:42,870 --> 00:18:40,240
18 inches two feet in diameter

531
00:18:46,150 --> 00:18:42,880
and very short lived a matter of seconds

532
00:18:48,150 --> 00:18:46,160
so it's a glowing ball of blue fire

533
00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:48,160
so to speak that that

534
00:18:53,029 --> 00:18:50,640
winks out of existence rapidly we're

535
00:18:54,789 --> 00:18:53,039
talking about sightings of something was

536
00:18:56,549 --> 00:18:54,799
bright red for the most part pedro

537
00:18:58,870 --> 00:18:56,559
saucedo who is the first person to call

538
00:19:01,430 --> 00:18:58,880
the level land sheriff

539
00:19:02,789 --> 00:19:01,440
at i think 10 30 that night on november

540
00:19:05,110 --> 00:19:02,799
2nd

541
00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:05,120
said it was a brightly glowing blue

542
00:19:08,789 --> 00:19:07,120
object that landed close to his truck

543
00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:08,799
stalled the truck he was so frightened

544
00:19:13,270 --> 00:19:11,039
he dived out of the truck the passenger

545
00:19:15,909 --> 00:19:13,280
was even more petrified and sat in the

546
00:19:17,270 --> 00:19:15,919
passenger's seat while the object sat on

547
00:19:19,110 --> 00:19:17,280
the ground and then it turned to a

548
00:19:21,110 --> 00:19:19,120
bright glowing red and it took off and

549
00:19:22,870 --> 00:19:21,120
then the truck could be started

550
00:19:24,230 --> 00:19:22,880
so we have the descriptions of the color

551
00:19:26,470 --> 00:19:24,240
changes but for the most part people

552
00:19:29,590 --> 00:19:26,480
were talking about a bright red object

553
00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:29,600
on on the ground that was in

554
00:19:31,909 --> 00:19:30,960
sight for

555
00:19:32,950 --> 00:19:31,919
minutes

556
00:19:34,630 --> 00:19:32,960
the whole

557
00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:34,640
series of sightings in level land took

558
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:36,240
place over about two two and a half

559
00:19:41,110 --> 00:19:38,880
hours on november 2nd into november the

560
00:19:42,630 --> 00:19:41,120
morning of november 3rd

561
00:19:44,630 --> 00:19:42,640
what i think one of the witnesses talked

562
00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:44,640
about sitting there watching it for 15

563
00:19:47,990 --> 00:19:46,160
minutes another said he watched it for

564
00:19:50,789 --> 00:19:48,000
five minutes so no matter how you look

565
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:50,799
at it ball lightning is not

566
00:20:00,230 --> 00:19:51,600
a

567
00:20:01,669 --> 00:20:00,240
finished the book on roswell now

568
00:20:02,549 --> 00:20:01,679
well well i was going to ask on that

569
00:20:05,029 --> 00:20:02,559
like

570
00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:05,039
is there anything particularly special

571
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:07,200
about level and in your research and

572
00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:09,760
your investigations that this event

573
00:20:14,230 --> 00:20:11,280
happened here

574
00:20:16,149 --> 00:20:14,240
was there anything nearby or

575
00:20:18,470 --> 00:20:16,159
nothing nothing um

576
00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:18,480
with roswell you can you can talk about

577
00:20:22,870 --> 00:20:20,880
the atomic strike force being based at

578
00:20:23,590 --> 00:20:22,880
roswell and you can look at new mexico

579
00:20:25,669 --> 00:20:23,600
where

580
00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:25,679
not that far from roswell we're firing

581
00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:27,840
rockets into the atmosphere higher than

582
00:20:32,230 --> 00:20:29,600
ever before and now of course we've gone

583
00:20:34,070 --> 00:20:32,240
to the moon but uh um

584
00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:34,080
you you if your

585
00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:36,400
interstellar race if you're a space

586
00:20:39,830 --> 00:20:38,080
traveling race and you find a

587
00:20:41,350 --> 00:20:39,840
civilization that's diverged on the

588
00:20:43,029 --> 00:20:41,360
verge of taking its first steps into

589
00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:43,039
space and they have atomic weapons

590
00:20:46,870 --> 00:20:44,400
you're going to be concerned about those

591
00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:46,880
people but level land no it there's

592
00:20:51,990 --> 00:20:48,640
nothing special about it other than it's

593
00:20:53,909 --> 00:20:52,000
three hours from roswell now um

594
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:53,919
an hour or so after the sightings ended

595
00:20:58,070 --> 00:20:56,240
in in in level land

596
00:20:59,590 --> 00:20:58,080
there were sightings at the white sands

597
00:21:02,310 --> 00:20:59,600
missile range

598
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:02,320
by military police the air force wrote

599
00:21:05,990 --> 00:21:04,080
those off as being

600
00:21:08,710 --> 00:21:06,000
hysteria

601
00:21:10,470 --> 00:21:08,720
and misidentification of the moon

602
00:21:12,950 --> 00:21:10,480
because of the level and sightings but

603
00:21:15,029 --> 00:21:12,960
the first sightings were by a couple of

604
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:15,039
mps

605
00:21:18,549 --> 00:21:17,280
in within hours

606
00:21:20,870 --> 00:21:18,559
of the

607
00:21:22,390 --> 00:21:20,880
sightings in level land

608
00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:22,400
they talked about something that came

609
00:21:25,750 --> 00:21:24,000
down close to the ground they could see

610
00:21:28,149 --> 00:21:25,760
it silhouetted against the mountains

611
00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:28,159
behind behind the object so clearly it

612
00:21:32,310 --> 00:21:30,000
wasn't the moon it wasn't venus as the

613
00:21:33,909 --> 00:21:32,320
air force claimed it was something much

614
00:21:35,590 --> 00:21:33,919
closer and something was much closer to

615
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:35,600
the ground and the air force dismissed

616
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:37,280
it and say well the mps were very young

617
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:39,760
they were 20 21 years old and

618
00:21:42,549 --> 00:21:41,280
they got caught up in the hysteria of

619
00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:42,559
the time and i'm thinking no they

620
00:21:45,029 --> 00:21:43,520
couldn't have been caught up in the

621
00:21:46,470 --> 00:21:45,039
history of the time because there wasn't

622
00:21:47,590 --> 00:21:46,480
social media

623
00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:47,600
there wasn't

624
00:21:51,590 --> 00:21:49,600
immediate access to this information

625
00:21:53,110 --> 00:21:51,600
about the sightings in level land as

626
00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:53,120
they were happening as we'd have today

627
00:21:55,669 --> 00:21:54,480
you'd have everybody on their cell phone

628
00:21:56,950 --> 00:21:55,679
saying geez you know come out here look

629
00:21:58,630 --> 00:21:56,960
what's going on

630
00:22:00,149 --> 00:21:58,640
um

631
00:22:01,270 --> 00:22:00,159
it didn't get reported until the next

632
00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:01,280
morning so they had they had no

633
00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:02,720
knowledge of this they couldn't been

634
00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:04,320
caught up in the history i talked to one

635
00:22:07,029 --> 00:22:05,840
of the mps

636
00:22:08,710 --> 00:22:07,039
um

637
00:22:09,909 --> 00:22:08,720
and he just he told me exactly what

638
00:22:12,630 --> 00:22:09,919
they'd seen and of course that's

639
00:22:14,789 --> 00:22:12,640
recorded in in the book level ad but the

640
00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:14,799
thing that really annoyed me

641
00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:16,480
was the the dismissal of them saying

642
00:22:19,110 --> 00:22:17,760
well they were poorly trained and they

643
00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:19,120
were young men and they just really

644
00:22:22,789 --> 00:22:20,640
didn't know what was going on and i'm

645
00:22:23,590 --> 00:22:22,799
thinking yeah they're 20 21 years old i

646
00:22:26,630 --> 00:22:23,600
think

647
00:22:29,909 --> 00:22:26,640
glenn toye who was the one i talked to i

648
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:29,919
think he was 21 in 1957.

649
00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:31,760
and i'm thinking i'm in vietnam as a

650
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:33,440
helicopter pilot and an aircraft

651
00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:35,440
commander at 19.

652
00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:38,960
i think george h.w bush was a um

653
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:41,679
a pilot in the navy at 19 during the

654
00:22:46,870 --> 00:22:44,640
second world war so a great deal of

655
00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:46,880
responsibility is placed on the

656
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:49,600
shoulders of very young individuals

657
00:22:53,270 --> 00:22:51,600
and there's not a second thought about

658
00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:53,280
that

659
00:22:58,070 --> 00:22:55,600
the things always cracked me up we had a

660
00:23:00,149 --> 00:22:58,080
one of the helicopter pilots

661
00:23:01,430 --> 00:23:00,159
in the flights we called him we called

662
00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:01,440
him papa

663
00:23:07,029 --> 00:23:03,360
because he was the oldest pilot

664
00:23:09,110 --> 00:23:07,039
flying with us he was 23.

665
00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:09,120
and so we're thinking the oldest guy is

666
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:12,400
23. so we were all you know 20 21 22

667
00:23:16,549 --> 00:23:14,400
years old uh i think i was the youngest

668
00:23:18,870 --> 00:23:16,559
pilot in the unit at the time

669
00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:18,880
but the dismissal of the testimony

670
00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:20,480
simply because they were young men is

671
00:23:24,470 --> 00:23:22,960
just just preposterous and that's kind

672
00:23:26,870 --> 00:23:24,480
of the attitude of the air force what

673
00:23:28,230 --> 00:23:26,880
can we do to dismiss the cases or make

674
00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:28,240
it look like it's something that it's

675
00:23:32,149 --> 00:23:30,720
not and that we see that time after time

676
00:23:34,149 --> 00:23:32,159
after time when you look at the air

677
00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:34,159
force files and you go through the files

678
00:23:37,669 --> 00:23:35,520
and you say you know this sighting

679
00:23:38,710 --> 00:23:37,679
really isn't identified as ball

680
00:23:41,830 --> 00:23:38,720
lightning

681
00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:41,840
or venus coming down and landing 150

682
00:23:46,630 --> 00:23:44,000
feet away from the uh

683
00:23:49,190 --> 00:23:46,640
the guys in the uh in the jeep on white

684
00:23:50,710 --> 00:23:49,200
sands so we take a look at all of that

685
00:23:52,710 --> 00:23:50,720
sort of thing

686
00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:52,720
now like you say you've got multiple

687
00:23:57,590 --> 00:23:54,720
sightings happening over hours and over

688
00:23:58,870 --> 00:23:57,600
a quite a large space as well that's

689
00:24:00,789 --> 00:23:58,880
always a good thing when it comes to

690
00:24:02,470 --> 00:24:00,799
data and as for a researcher and an

691
00:24:04,390 --> 00:24:02,480
investigator you can actually say well

692
00:24:07,590 --> 00:24:04,400
they saw it here and they saw it here

693
00:24:09,510 --> 00:24:07,600
then they saw this over here as well

694
00:24:11,269 --> 00:24:09,520
is that something that

695
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:11,279
you've managed to see that there could

696
00:24:15,110 --> 00:24:14,080
be any pros explanation for is there

697
00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:15,120
something you've looked at and thought

698
00:24:19,590 --> 00:24:18,240
well possibly it could be this but

699
00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:19,600
ultimately you're obviously leaning

700
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:22,880
towards a more et explanation

701
00:24:25,510 --> 00:24:24,480
with level land you've got it

702
00:24:27,430 --> 00:24:25,520
interacting with the environment

703
00:24:30,070 --> 00:24:27,440
installing the car engines so what kind

704
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:30,080
of natural phenomenon or

705
00:24:34,390 --> 00:24:33,039
mechanism do we have do we have a 1957

706
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:34,400
that would do that

707
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:36,799
in my research i found that the japanese

708
00:24:40,070 --> 00:24:38,480
during the second world war were

709
00:24:41,669 --> 00:24:40,080
experimenting with

710
00:24:42,390 --> 00:24:41,679
magnetic effects and seeing if they

711
00:24:45,669 --> 00:24:42,400
could

712
00:24:47,190 --> 00:24:45,679
stop an engine with a magnetic ray

713
00:24:49,110 --> 00:24:47,200
if they could get too close enough to it

714
00:24:51,190 --> 00:24:49,120
because if you can knock the other guy's

715
00:24:53,269 --> 00:24:51,200
fighter planes out of the sky with a

716
00:24:55,269 --> 00:24:53,279
magnetic ray from a distance you're way

717
00:24:57,669 --> 00:24:55,279
ahead i think they managed to get it to

718
00:25:00,710 --> 00:24:57,679
work up to 10 feet

719
00:25:02,789 --> 00:25:00,720
just they just could not get beyond

720
00:25:04,230 --> 00:25:02,799
i guess the inverse square law

721
00:25:06,070 --> 00:25:04,240
which is you know the

722
00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:06,080
farther away you get that you reduce it

723
00:25:10,950 --> 00:25:08,720
by a square as opposed to doubling it

724
00:25:13,430 --> 00:25:10,960
but they couldn't get beyond that so we

725
00:25:14,310 --> 00:25:13,440
know of no mechanism that we have and i

726
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:14,320
don't think there's anything in the

727
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:16,080
technology today that we have that would

728
00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:18,240
do that and it would be interesting to

729
00:25:20,710 --> 00:25:19,200
say

730
00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:20,720
well you know it was just something

731
00:25:24,070 --> 00:25:22,320
wrong with the car in fact the air force

732
00:25:26,390 --> 00:25:24,080
pulled that out and leveling pedro

733
00:25:28,470 --> 00:25:26,400
saucedo it had his truck prepared i

734
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:28,480
think the day before the sightings and

735
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:30,640
after the sightings it took it back in

736
00:25:34,149 --> 00:25:31,919
to have it looked at and they found a

737
00:25:37,029 --> 00:25:34,159
piece of metal in the rotor

738
00:25:38,710 --> 00:25:37,039
which could have shorted it shorted out

739
00:25:40,230 --> 00:25:38,720
the uh in the distributor could have

740
00:25:42,149 --> 00:25:40,240
shorted out the

741
00:25:44,230 --> 00:25:42,159
firing of the of the spark plugs but

742
00:25:46,630 --> 00:25:44,240
then you have to ask yourself well why

743
00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:46,640
did the only fan manifest itself once

744
00:25:50,470 --> 00:25:48,720
and why only when this object was close

745
00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:50,480
by and once the object was gone well

746
00:25:54,710 --> 00:25:52,880
then i can start my truck again and then

747
00:25:57,110 --> 00:25:54,720
you have all the others that report the

748
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:57,120
same thing so we know of no mechanism

749
00:26:00,390 --> 00:25:58,400
the air force

750
00:26:02,470 --> 00:26:00,400
i think i i you mentioned heineck and i

751
00:26:04,149 --> 00:26:02,480
think heineken once once had said about

752
00:26:06,710 --> 00:26:04,159
the level and sightings well you can you

753
00:26:08,549 --> 00:26:06,720
can eliminate the pos pedro says cedaw

754
00:26:10,230 --> 00:26:08,559
sighting and i think well no you really

755
00:26:11,669 --> 00:26:10,240
can't he said the other one would be a

756
00:26:13,669 --> 00:26:11,679
coincidence but when you get the two of

757
00:26:15,190 --> 00:26:13,679
coincidences then you're moving it

758
00:26:17,350 --> 00:26:15,200
pretty much outside the realm of

759
00:26:19,190 --> 00:26:17,360
coincidence and then when we begin

760
00:26:21,510 --> 00:26:19,200
talking about people

761
00:26:23,430 --> 00:26:21,520
identified at 13 separate locations at

762
00:26:25,029 --> 00:26:23,440
least that we know of

763
00:26:27,190 --> 00:26:25,039
then you've moved it way beyond

764
00:26:29,590 --> 00:26:27,200
coincidence so there's no mechanism that

765
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:29,600
explains the sightings in terrestrial

766
00:26:33,909 --> 00:26:31,600
fashion and i think that's an important

767
00:26:35,830 --> 00:26:33,919
point with the with the the level n

768
00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:35,840
sightings is we have no terrestrial

769
00:26:41,909 --> 00:26:39,360
explanation that accounts for all the

770
00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:41,919
reported malfunctions of vehicles and

771
00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:43,679
the sightings of the object right maybe

772
00:26:48,310 --> 00:26:45,760
it's a glowing red

773
00:26:50,310 --> 00:26:48,320
um i think saucedo called it torpedo

774
00:26:51,350 --> 00:26:50,320
shaped other people call it egg shape

775
00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:51,360
and i'm thinking you know that's

776
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:53,360
probably a matter of perspective where

777
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:55,200
you were when you saw the object how you

778
00:27:00,149 --> 00:26:58,080
looked at it if you look at um

779
00:27:01,990 --> 00:27:00,159
you know like a tanker truck

780
00:27:03,909 --> 00:27:02,000
for straight on it it looks like a big

781
00:27:05,590 --> 00:27:03,919
cigar shaped object but if you look at

782
00:27:07,430 --> 00:27:05,600
it from an angle then you begin to get

783
00:27:09,269 --> 00:27:07,440
egg shaped or other looking

784
00:27:11,190 --> 00:27:09,279
shapes to it so it's a matter of

785
00:27:13,269 --> 00:27:11,200
perspective not the craft changing shape

786
00:27:15,029 --> 00:27:13,279
but it's just a matter of perspective

787
00:27:16,630 --> 00:27:15,039
and we have an awful lot of discussion

788
00:27:18,310 --> 00:27:16,640
of what it looked like and how long it

789
00:27:20,470 --> 00:27:18,320
was visible and what it did when it was

790
00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:20,480
on the ground now we couple if we could

791
00:27:24,549 --> 00:27:22,320
have coupled it to the landing trace

792
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:24,559
case then we've got an even greater body

793
00:27:28,710 --> 00:27:26,880
of evidence about it so we we had an

794
00:27:30,789 --> 00:27:28,720
opportunity there to

795
00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:30,799
investigate this case properly but the

796
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:32,240
air force at that time was more

797
00:27:35,909 --> 00:27:34,080
interested in explaining cases and

798
00:27:38,630 --> 00:27:35,919
keeping the public

799
00:27:41,590 --> 00:27:38,640
misinformed about ufos than it was in

800
00:27:43,590 --> 00:27:41,600
actually investigating ufos two or three

801
00:27:45,190 --> 00:27:43,600
days later on november 6th i think it

802
00:27:48,549 --> 00:27:45,200
was a guy named

803
00:27:49,830 --> 00:27:48,559
james stokes was driving from alamogordo

804
00:27:52,389 --> 00:27:49,840
the um

805
00:27:54,389 --> 00:27:52,399
holloman air force base to el paso texas

806
00:27:56,149 --> 00:27:54,399
and if you look at your map it's what an

807
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:56,159
hour and a half two hours from

808
00:27:59,990 --> 00:27:57,840
alamogordo to el paso and you go through

809
00:28:01,830 --> 00:28:00,000
a little town called oro grande

810
00:28:03,430 --> 00:28:01,840
and as he approached oral grander his

811
00:28:04,549 --> 00:28:03,440
radio began to fade out and he was

812
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:04,559
wondering what's going on then his

813
00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:06,240
engine sputtered and quit and he pulled

814
00:28:08,389 --> 00:28:06,960
over

815
00:28:11,029 --> 00:28:08,399
the side of the road and he's sitting

816
00:28:12,470 --> 00:28:11,039
there behind six or seven other cars

817
00:28:14,549 --> 00:28:12,480
and they're watching an eight-shaped

818
00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:14,559
object as it flies around overhead for a

819
00:28:17,590 --> 00:28:15,600
moment

820
00:28:18,789 --> 00:28:17,600
when the object disappeared of course he

821
00:28:20,310 --> 00:28:18,799
got into his car and i don't know if he

822
00:28:21,990 --> 00:28:20,320
continued on to el paso and then went

823
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:22,000
home that night but when he got home to

824
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:24,640
alamogordo he called jim lorenzen who

825
00:28:28,230 --> 00:28:26,480
was with core lorenzen the leader of the

826
00:28:29,909 --> 00:28:28,240
era phenomenal research organization

827
00:28:30,950 --> 00:28:29,919
they were based in alamogordo at the

828
00:28:33,269 --> 00:28:30,960
time

829
00:28:35,669 --> 00:28:33,279
and he went to see them and they noticed

830
00:28:37,269 --> 00:28:35,679
he had a slight like sunburn on half of

831
00:28:39,110 --> 00:28:37,279
his face and one of his arms and if you

832
00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:39,120
remember close encounters of the third

833
00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:41,840
third kind uh richard dreyfuss had that

834
00:28:45,269 --> 00:28:43,520
similar problem much more pronounced

835
00:28:47,269 --> 00:28:45,279
from reading it much more pronounced

836
00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:47,279
than what what stokes experienced but

837
00:28:51,269 --> 00:28:49,360
here's another group of sightings with

838
00:28:54,630 --> 00:28:51,279
multiple witnesses again in multiple car

839
00:28:57,190 --> 00:28:54,640
stories and and another effect of the

840
00:28:58,870 --> 00:28:57,200
ufo and the air force spent a lot of

841
00:29:01,669 --> 00:28:58,880
time maligning

842
00:29:02,789 --> 00:29:01,679
of james stokes who was a an engineer

843
00:29:05,510 --> 00:29:02,799
working at

844
00:29:06,789 --> 00:29:05,520
holloman air force base and his bosses

845
00:29:08,149 --> 00:29:06,799
at at

846
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:08,159
the base were saying well he's an

847
00:29:11,830 --> 00:29:09,840
engineer working for us he spent 20

848
00:29:13,669 --> 00:29:11,840
years in the navy and

849
00:29:15,669 --> 00:29:13,679
he doesn't have a

850
00:29:17,750 --> 00:29:15,679
he wasn't a licensed engineer but he was

851
00:29:19,669 --> 00:29:17,760
doing engineering stuff and his bosses

852
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:19,679
are saying yes he's an engineer and the

853
00:29:22,710 --> 00:29:21,200
air force that came out was well we

854
00:29:24,149 --> 00:29:22,720
couldn't find a degree for him for air

855
00:29:26,389 --> 00:29:24,159
force so we can't trust what he has to

856
00:29:28,470 --> 00:29:26,399
say because he's embellishing his resume

857
00:29:30,389 --> 00:29:28,480
he's working as an engineer whether he's

858
00:29:32,149 --> 00:29:30,399
got a degree or not is irrelevant he's

859
00:29:34,630 --> 00:29:32,159
got a position where he is called an

860
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:34,640
engineer on an air force base

861
00:29:44,149 --> 00:29:41,190
belittle the witnesses and reduce their

862
00:29:46,389 --> 00:29:44,159
importance in their credibility by

863
00:29:48,310 --> 00:29:46,399
smearing their reputations and and you

864
00:29:50,230 --> 00:29:48,320
can see in many other cases them doing

865
00:29:51,669 --> 00:29:50,240
the same things with other witnesses

866
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:51,679
doing everything they can to make the

867
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:54,080
person look like an egotist or somebody

868
00:29:57,110 --> 00:29:55,440
who's jumping on the bandwagon or

869
00:29:58,789 --> 00:29:57,120
somebody who's not very bright and you

870
00:30:00,389 --> 00:29:58,799
get into the depth of the person and you

871
00:30:02,549 --> 00:30:00,399
learn there's great deal more to them

872
00:30:03,990 --> 00:30:02,559
than just the the smear thrown out by

873
00:30:05,830 --> 00:30:04,000
the air force

874
00:30:07,750 --> 00:30:05,840
now kevin you read my mind when you

875
00:30:09,269 --> 00:30:07,760
brought up the the effects the physical

876
00:30:11,269 --> 00:30:09,279
effects of close contact because that

877
00:30:13,110 --> 00:30:11,279
was going to be my next question so it's

878
00:30:15,190 --> 00:30:13,120
interesting you had that you say sunburn

879
00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:15,200
effect so these objects were clearly

880
00:30:20,789 --> 00:30:18,240
within a range or causing some sort of

881
00:30:23,029 --> 00:30:20,799
of interference that was affecting like

882
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:23,039
in a human skin was there any lasting

883
00:30:26,950 --> 00:30:24,880
effects you found out from people that

884
00:30:29,430 --> 00:30:26,960
maybe lasted a lot longer into later

885
00:30:30,870 --> 00:30:29,440
life that was there any cancers or rare

886
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:30,880
diseases

887
00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:33,440
in in level land no the the

888
00:30:37,590 --> 00:30:36,000
sunburn effect on stokes faded in a

889
00:30:39,909 --> 00:30:37,600
matter of hours in fact when the air

890
00:30:42,149 --> 00:30:39,919
force showed up to investigate

891
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:42,159
a couple of days later

892
00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:43,200
his

893
00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:45,200
skin tone had returned to normal there

894
00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:47,760
was no evidence of the reddening of the

895
00:30:52,310 --> 00:30:50,240
sunburnt effect there's another story

896
00:30:54,230 --> 00:30:52,320
that one of the mps was not available

897
00:30:56,549 --> 00:30:54,240
for the air force investigation i think

898
00:30:58,950 --> 00:30:56,559
his name was will banks

899
00:31:00,710 --> 00:30:58,960
and the story is he was in the hospital

900
00:31:02,230 --> 00:31:00,720
but what they told the air force was we

901
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:02,240
gave him a three-day pass and i'm

902
00:31:05,590 --> 00:31:04,000
thinking yeah we know that there's going

903
00:31:06,950 --> 00:31:05,600
to be an investigation we know the guy's

904
00:31:08,630 --> 00:31:06,960
coming down and now we put him on a

905
00:31:10,149 --> 00:31:08,640
three-day pass now if you're on a

906
00:31:12,070 --> 00:31:10,159
three-day pass and i know this from my

907
00:31:14,230 --> 00:31:12,080
military experience you have to leave a

908
00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:14,240
phone number you have to be they have to

909
00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:16,320
be able to contact you

910
00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:19,360
so even if the person who granted the

911
00:31:23,509 --> 00:31:21,120
three-day pass didn't know the air force

912
00:31:24,630 --> 00:31:23,519
was coming down to investigate he would

913
00:31:25,590 --> 00:31:24,640
have learned when they got there and he

914
00:31:27,509 --> 00:31:25,600
would have been

915
00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:27,519
recalled recalled will banks i believe

916
00:31:32,149 --> 00:31:30,240
it's will banks to to holloman air force

917
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:32,159
base so he could be interviewed

918
00:31:36,389 --> 00:31:33,760
the other thing is a three-day pass has

919
00:31:37,990 --> 00:31:36,399
a limitation of how far you can travel

920
00:31:39,990 --> 00:31:38,000
and so he would have been basically in

921
00:31:42,389 --> 00:31:40,000
the local area the story is from the

922
00:31:43,669 --> 00:31:42,399
lorenzens is he was in the hospital and

923
00:31:46,149 --> 00:31:43,679
he was in the hospital because of the

924
00:31:47,909 --> 00:31:46,159
facts but there was no lasting effects

925
00:31:50,230 --> 00:31:47,919
we move into the realm of the cash

926
00:31:52,789 --> 00:31:50,240
landrum sighting in 1980

927
00:31:54,789 --> 00:31:52,799
where there were the apparent lasting

928
00:31:57,509 --> 00:31:54,799
effects um

929
00:31:59,509 --> 00:31:57,519
john schussler i think it is has done

930
00:32:02,710 --> 00:31:59,519
a great deal of work investigating that

931
00:32:04,310 --> 00:32:02,720
case uh kirk collins on his blog

932
00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:04,320
has a great deal of information about

933
00:32:08,149 --> 00:32:06,720
the cash landrum case

934
00:32:10,470 --> 00:32:08,159
if you go to your search engine you just

935
00:32:11,990 --> 00:32:10,480
type in cash landrum i think you it'll

936
00:32:14,230 --> 00:32:12,000
take you to all the information that's

937
00:32:16,870 --> 00:32:14,240
available on this phillip class said

938
00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:16,880
that the effects experienced by

939
00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:19,440
the two women and the young boy

940
00:32:24,549 --> 00:32:22,000
were pre-existing conditions

941
00:32:26,389 --> 00:32:24,559
and uh but it doesn't seem that's quite

942
00:32:28,950 --> 00:32:26,399
accurate because it seems that some of

943
00:32:30,310 --> 00:32:28,960
the the

944
00:32:31,990 --> 00:32:30,320
later effects and i think there may have

945
00:32:33,269 --> 00:32:32,000
been some cancer involved in there i'm

946
00:32:35,269 --> 00:32:33,279
not sure because i haven't spent a lot

947
00:32:37,110 --> 00:32:35,279
of time investigating that case

948
00:32:38,470 --> 00:32:37,120
but i think there was some cancer

949
00:32:40,149 --> 00:32:38,480
effects there and

950
00:32:42,230 --> 00:32:40,159
were lasting throughout their lives and

951
00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:42,240
there have been cases where people have

952
00:32:44,470 --> 00:32:43,360
suffered

953
00:32:45,430 --> 00:32:44,480
um

954
00:32:48,070 --> 00:32:45,440
more

955
00:32:51,110 --> 00:32:48,080
debilitating effects than was was ex

956
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:51,120
exhibited in uh in level land so we have

957
00:32:54,070 --> 00:32:52,559
a range of those sorts of things and

958
00:32:57,430 --> 00:32:54,080
that's the other thing

959
00:33:00,149 --> 00:32:57,440
there's all these subsets of of ufology

960
00:33:02,310 --> 00:33:00,159
and i'm chasing one now where people

961
00:33:04,630 --> 00:33:02,320
were trying to take pictures or video

962
00:33:06,310 --> 00:33:04,640
with their cell phones of ufos and the

963
00:33:08,470 --> 00:33:06,320
camera failed

964
00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:08,480
camera worked fine before the ufo was

965
00:33:12,789 --> 00:33:10,320
there camera worked fine after the ufo

966
00:33:14,389 --> 00:33:12,799
was gone but when they were trying to

967
00:33:16,630 --> 00:33:14,399
video the the

968
00:33:18,149 --> 00:33:16,640
ufo the camera didn't work sometimes

969
00:33:19,190 --> 00:33:18,159
they get sound you can hear the sound

970
00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:19,200
you can hear what they're saying and you

971
00:33:24,710 --> 00:33:21,360
can hear all the sound in the background

972
00:33:26,230 --> 00:33:24,720
but the image of the ufo is is gone and

973
00:33:27,669 --> 00:33:26,240
that sort of thing and so i've been

974
00:33:29,509 --> 00:33:27,679
looking into those cases there are quite

975
00:33:31,110 --> 00:33:29,519
a few of those where the the cameras

976
00:33:33,509 --> 00:33:31,120
have failed on that so that's another

977
00:33:35,430 --> 00:33:33,519
kind of side effect of close approach of

978
00:33:38,310 --> 00:33:35,440
the ufo

979
00:33:40,230 --> 00:33:38,320
uh one event i suppose we were just just

980
00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:40,240
before camera phones became mass

981
00:33:44,389 --> 00:33:42,720
manufactured and or even available was

982
00:33:45,509 --> 00:33:44,399
the phoenix lights of course and that's

983
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:45,519
the kind of thing we would have loved to

984
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:47,519
have seen more footage from there was a

985
00:33:50,789 --> 00:33:49,120
huge fallout from the phoenix lakes

986
00:33:53,830 --> 00:33:50,799
event in the mid 90s because so many

987
00:33:55,509 --> 00:33:53,840
people in the the city saw these lights

988
00:33:58,549 --> 00:33:55,519
they saw what they reported as a huge

989
00:34:00,389 --> 00:33:58,559
triangle or v shape flying over overhead

990
00:34:02,149 --> 00:34:00,399
was there any similar fallout from

991
00:34:04,389 --> 00:34:02,159
levelland where the people of the town

992
00:34:05,669 --> 00:34:04,399
were scared did they report it was there

993
00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:05,679
anything that kind of carried on

994
00:34:09,190 --> 00:34:07,440
afterwards

995
00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:09,200
there doesn't seem to be and i've you

996
00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:10,320
know looked at an awful lot of the

997
00:34:13,829 --> 00:34:12,560
newspapers from from that time frame and

998
00:34:16,230 --> 00:34:13,839
you're looking at it it seemed to be

999
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:16,240
more of an interest in the in the

1000
00:34:19,589 --> 00:34:17,760
subject there doesn't seem to be anybody

1001
00:34:22,550 --> 00:34:19,599
really frightened by it those who were

1002
00:34:23,669 --> 00:34:22,560
experienced in their car stalling

1003
00:34:25,829 --> 00:34:23,679
they were frightened because they didn't

1004
00:34:27,349 --> 00:34:25,839
understand what was going on

1005
00:34:29,190 --> 00:34:27,359
but for

1006
00:34:31,270 --> 00:34:29,200
the people in the area around that in

1007
00:34:33,109 --> 00:34:31,280
level land in lubbock in the in the west

1008
00:34:35,510 --> 00:34:33,119
texas in the panhandle there doesn't

1009
00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:35,520
seem to be any long-lasting

1010
00:34:40,389 --> 00:34:38,240
um fright and i i said you brought that

1011
00:34:43,190 --> 00:34:40,399
up i wonder if that might be a result of

1012
00:34:44,869 --> 00:34:43,200
the phoenix the lubbock lights which was

1013
00:34:47,430 --> 00:34:44,879
lubbock of course right there by level

1014
00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:47,440
land it took place in 1951 so they had

1015
00:34:52,710 --> 00:34:49,760
some experience with these sorts of

1016
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:52,720
phenomenon being reported and there's no

1017
00:34:56,710 --> 00:34:55,119
lasting effect to anybody so i think

1018
00:34:58,870 --> 00:34:56,720
they looked at it more

1019
00:35:00,630 --> 00:34:58,880
in the realm of oh not this kind of

1020
00:35:02,550 --> 00:35:00,640
thing again as opposed to oh my god

1021
00:35:06,310 --> 00:35:02,560
what's happening around here

1022
00:35:08,310 --> 00:35:06,320
i think and i think as we move into um

1023
00:35:09,990 --> 00:35:08,320
our time frame when we're all

1024
00:35:13,910 --> 00:35:10,000
experienced with

1025
00:35:15,589 --> 00:35:13,920
movies and science fiction of of

1026
00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:15,599
alien visitation and that sort of thing

1027
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:17,760
there's an awful lot of documentaries on

1028
00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:19,440
ufos and i think a lot of people realize

1029
00:35:25,030 --> 00:35:21,440
you know this stuff's been going on if

1030
00:35:26,710 --> 00:35:25,040
if we count from from 1947 for 75 years

1031
00:35:28,550 --> 00:35:26,720
if we take it back to the second world

1032
00:35:30,870 --> 00:35:28,560
war where the foo fighters and the the

1033
00:35:33,190 --> 00:35:30,880
ghost rockets in scandinavia and the

1034
00:35:34,870 --> 00:35:33,200
northern europe in 1946 has been going

1035
00:35:36,390 --> 00:35:34,880
on even longer

1036
00:35:38,950 --> 00:35:36,400
and there's really been no adverse

1037
00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:38,960
effect you can point to very few people

1038
00:35:43,349 --> 00:35:40,880
who are injured by close approaches of

1039
00:35:46,069 --> 00:35:43,359
ufos and that's usually a side effect

1040
00:35:48,069 --> 00:35:46,079
not something that is done purposely

1041
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:48,079
we had

1042
00:35:53,510 --> 00:35:50,720
we can look at the thomas mantel case

1043
00:35:56,630 --> 00:35:53,520
from january of 1948 he was killed

1044
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:56,640
chasing a ufo i believe now based on the

1045
00:36:00,550 --> 00:35:58,720
documentation we've been able to secure

1046
00:36:02,790 --> 00:36:00,560
over the years and i'm at odds with a

1047
00:36:04,310 --> 00:36:02,800
number of my my colleagues in the field

1048
00:36:05,589 --> 00:36:04,320
i believe what he saw was a skyhook

1049
00:36:06,790 --> 00:36:05,599
balloon

1050
00:36:09,910 --> 00:36:06,800
and i believe it was launched in

1051
00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:09,920
minnesota a day or so earlier and if you

1052
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:11,520
watch the wind patterns it would have

1053
00:36:15,990 --> 00:36:14,160
been pretty much where

1054
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:16,000
mantel saw it and the problem wasn't

1055
00:36:21,349 --> 00:36:18,240
that the ufo whatever it might have been

1056
00:36:24,470 --> 00:36:21,359
took any action to stop mantel but

1057
00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:24,480
mantel violated one of the regulations

1058
00:36:29,270 --> 00:36:27,200
he was he climbed too high

1059
00:36:31,750 --> 00:36:29,280
without benefit of oxygen

1060
00:36:34,710 --> 00:36:31,760
and i did i did some research into

1061
00:36:36,790 --> 00:36:34,720
both anoxia and hypoxia which one is the

1062
00:36:39,109 --> 00:36:36,800
complete lack of oxygen in the blood the

1063
00:36:41,349 --> 00:36:39,119
other was a reduced oxygen and blood

1064
00:36:42,390 --> 00:36:41,359
which has all kinds of effects on the

1065
00:36:45,670 --> 00:36:42,400
brain

1066
00:36:47,750 --> 00:36:45,680
and then i think at 24 000 feet without

1067
00:36:49,829 --> 00:36:47,760
supplemental oxygen oxygen the average

1068
00:36:52,310 --> 00:36:49,839
person has a useful

1069
00:36:54,390 --> 00:36:52,320
consciousness of about 10 minutes

1070
00:36:55,910 --> 00:36:54,400
if you get about 2000 feet

1071
00:36:58,230 --> 00:36:55,920
above that you've got a useful

1072
00:37:00,550 --> 00:36:58,240
consciousness of about four minutes and

1073
00:37:01,510 --> 00:37:00,560
if you get to 29 000 feet it's like 29

1074
00:37:04,630 --> 00:37:01,520
seconds

1075
00:37:07,910 --> 00:37:04,640
but the problem is mantel didn't climb

1076
00:37:10,470 --> 00:37:07,920
directly to 25 000 feet or whatever he

1077
00:37:13,670 --> 00:37:10,480
did in gradual stages so he was up

1078
00:37:16,870 --> 00:37:13,680
they were circling at about 20 000 feet

1079
00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:16,880
at one point and the wingmen with

1080
00:37:21,750 --> 00:37:18,960
mantel started experience or one of them

1081
00:37:23,510 --> 00:37:21,760
did starting experience the hypoxia and

1082
00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:23,520
they broke off the intercept and mantel

1083
00:37:26,790 --> 00:37:25,359
says well i'm going to go to 25 000 feet

1084
00:37:29,510 --> 00:37:26,800
and circle for 10 minutes and if i can't

1085
00:37:31,990 --> 00:37:29,520
get any closer then i'll break it off

1086
00:37:35,430 --> 00:37:32,000
he didn't make it to 25 000 feet he

1087
00:37:38,390 --> 00:37:35,440
passed out with the aircraft time to cr

1088
00:37:40,069 --> 00:37:38,400
to climb and at about 30 000 feet the

1089
00:37:41,589 --> 00:37:40,079
torque of the engine pulled it over into

1090
00:37:44,230 --> 00:37:41,599
a power dive and it disintegrated the

1091
00:37:46,630 --> 00:37:44,240
aircraft disintegrated about

1092
00:37:48,550 --> 00:37:46,640
19 000 feet based on the stresses on the

1093
00:37:51,750 --> 00:37:48,560
airframe that it was not designed to

1094
00:37:53,990 --> 00:37:51,760
withstand so he was

1095
00:37:55,510 --> 00:37:54,000
if if i am correct he

1096
00:37:57,270 --> 00:37:55,520
he was um

1097
00:37:59,109 --> 00:37:57,280
killed chasing a

1098
00:38:00,710 --> 00:37:59,119
skyhook balloon if my colleagues are

1099
00:38:02,470 --> 00:38:00,720
correct he was killed chasing a flying

1100
00:38:04,390 --> 00:38:02,480
saucer but the flying saucer the ufo

1101
00:38:08,069 --> 00:38:04,400
took no action against him

1102
00:38:11,030 --> 00:38:08,079
so no matter what the object was the the

1103
00:38:13,430 --> 00:38:11,040
the result of the aircraft accident was

1104
00:38:15,510 --> 00:38:13,440
mantel violation of orders which said

1105
00:38:17,670 --> 00:38:15,520
above 14 000 feature required to use

1106
00:38:19,589 --> 00:38:17,680
oxygen and he didn't although the

1107
00:38:21,430 --> 00:38:19,599
aircraft was equipped for oxygen the

1108
00:38:23,190 --> 00:38:21,440
oxygen had not been charged and he may

1109
00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:23,200
not have had his oxygen mask with him

1110
00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:24,480
because the flight was scheduled to be

1111
00:38:28,150 --> 00:38:26,480
at 5000 feet so there was no need for

1112
00:38:30,150 --> 00:38:28,160
the oxygen equipment

1113
00:38:31,670 --> 00:38:30,160
breaking news this important public

1114
00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:31,680
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1115
00:38:35,589 --> 00:38:33,760
by manscaped.com

1116
00:38:37,349 --> 00:38:35,599
this is your pubic service announcement

1117
00:38:39,190 --> 00:38:37,359
and the news you've all been waiting for

1118
00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:39,200
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1119
00:38:44,069 --> 00:38:40,960
confirmed that they have successfully

1120
00:38:46,310 --> 00:38:44,079
created the lawnmower 4.0 trimmer which

1121
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is now available for purchase in the eu

1122
00:38:50,710 --> 00:38:48,800
and uk this new tremor was just released

1123
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1124
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first to get our hands on it and share

1125
00:38:57,270 --> 00:38:55,280
the news join over 2 million men

1126
00:38:59,109 --> 00:38:57,280
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1127
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1128
00:39:05,910 --> 00:39:02,480
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1129
00:39:07,589 --> 00:39:05,920
and the ufo at manscape.com

1130
00:39:10,150 --> 00:39:07,599
i'm one of the first people to try the

1131
00:39:12,230 --> 00:39:10,160
new 4.0 and i am blown away by the

1132
00:39:15,109 --> 00:39:12,240
performance the craftsmanship and

1133
00:39:17,270 --> 00:39:15,119
details on the 4.0 our next level

1134
00:39:19,589 --> 00:39:17,280
generations ahead of where it should be

1135
00:39:21,829 --> 00:39:19,599
the advanced ceramic blade and skin safe

1136
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:21,839
technology is so good that it almost

1137
00:39:26,310 --> 00:39:23,760
seems that landscape will work with at

1138
00:39:29,829 --> 00:39:26,320
s4 with bob lazar and others to ensure

1139
00:39:31,510 --> 00:39:29,839
your sources are as safe as possible

1140
00:39:33,510 --> 00:39:31,520
i have a couple of colleagues dave

1141
00:39:35,270 --> 00:39:33,520
partridge and graham rendell who

1142
00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:35,280
actually want to speak to you and but

1143
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:37,520
they are um specialists from the uk

1144
00:39:41,670 --> 00:39:39,280
especially when it comes to historical

1145
00:39:43,109 --> 00:39:41,680
um ufo cases graham's got a fantastic

1146
00:39:45,349 --> 00:39:43,119
book out about the foo fighters that you

1147
00:39:46,630 --> 00:39:45,359
mentioned of world war ii um but i'll

1148
00:39:47,910 --> 00:39:46,640
pass that information on to you at the

1149
00:39:50,550 --> 00:39:47,920
end but they would love to speak to you

1150
00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:50,560
about that mantel case as well but what

1151
00:39:54,950 --> 00:39:52,480
i would like to know kevin is what can

1152
00:39:56,870 --> 00:39:54,960
these historical events like levelland

1153
00:39:58,710 --> 00:39:56,880
like roswell that you've got a new book

1154
00:40:01,030 --> 00:39:58,720
coming out about you say as well what

1155
00:40:02,950 --> 00:40:01,040
can they teach us about the phenomenon

1156
00:40:05,030 --> 00:40:02,960
today and help us understand what may be

1157
00:40:08,069 --> 00:40:05,040
happening

1158
00:40:09,589 --> 00:40:08,079
what we're looking at is

1159
00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:09,599
investigations that took place at the

1160
00:40:11,589 --> 00:40:10,560
time

1161
00:40:13,510 --> 00:40:11,599
so

1162
00:40:15,670 --> 00:40:13,520
information was gathered at the time and

1163
00:40:18,630 --> 00:40:15,680
then we've got subsequent investigations

1164
00:40:20,550 --> 00:40:18,640
conducted by both military

1165
00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:20,560
and civilians

1166
00:40:23,990 --> 00:40:21,760
through the through the years so we've

1167
00:40:27,910 --> 00:40:24,000
gathered a great deal of data and what

1168
00:40:32,950 --> 00:40:31,109
an effort to suppress the information

1169
00:40:34,790 --> 00:40:32,960
by

1170
00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:34,800
the american government and i think

1171
00:40:38,710 --> 00:40:36,880
maybe the british government and other

1172
00:40:41,109 --> 00:40:38,720
governments around the world to suppress

1173
00:40:42,390 --> 00:40:41,119
the information and i know the air force

1174
00:40:45,270 --> 00:40:42,400
the australians were going to

1175
00:40:47,349 --> 00:40:45,280
investigate ufos based on reading

1176
00:40:49,589 --> 00:40:47,359
don quijo's book flying saucers from

1177
00:40:51,990 --> 00:40:49,599
outer space or one of one of those books

1178
00:40:54,390 --> 00:40:52,000
and so the air force officers contacted

1179
00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:54,400
american officers about

1180
00:40:57,990 --> 00:40:56,640
ufos flying saucers and the americans

1181
00:40:59,670 --> 00:40:58,000
attitude was oh there's nothing to it

1182
00:41:00,870 --> 00:40:59,680
you can't believe a thing kehoe says

1183
00:41:02,390 --> 00:41:00,880
don't do it

1184
00:41:04,470 --> 00:41:02,400
turns out if you

1185
00:41:06,550 --> 00:41:04,480
go back and you research

1186
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:06,560
kehoe's book carefully you see that most

1187
00:41:10,710 --> 00:41:08,720
of what he printed although he couldn't

1188
00:41:12,710 --> 00:41:10,720
name all the sources he had because they

1189
00:41:15,190 --> 00:41:12,720
were talking to him

1190
00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:15,200
off the record so to speak

1191
00:41:19,109 --> 00:41:16,960
the information was accurate

1192
00:41:21,990 --> 00:41:19,119
so you see our air force the u.s air

1193
00:41:24,550 --> 00:41:22,000
force manipulating the air forces in

1194
00:41:25,349 --> 00:41:24,560
other countries to to not

1195
00:41:27,030 --> 00:41:25,359
do

1196
00:41:28,710 --> 00:41:27,040
solid investigations

1197
00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:28,720
but by going back and studying these

1198
00:41:34,150 --> 00:41:31,280
cases we learn an awful lot about not

1199
00:41:36,309 --> 00:41:34,160
only what was going on we get some clues

1200
00:41:38,630 --> 00:41:36,319
about propulsion we get some com some

1201
00:41:40,630 --> 00:41:38,640
clues about uh

1202
00:41:43,030 --> 00:41:40,640
other aspects of it but the thing that's

1203
00:41:45,990 --> 00:41:43,040
really important i think is if you're

1204
00:41:48,710 --> 00:41:46,000
told repeatedly something is impossible

1205
00:41:50,710 --> 00:41:48,720
you probably don't attempt it but if you

1206
00:41:52,550 --> 00:41:50,720
realize it is possible and you're not

1207
00:41:55,990 --> 00:41:52,560
sure how it's done you begin to try to

1208
00:41:58,630 --> 00:41:56,000
figure out how to do it yourselves so if

1209
00:42:00,870 --> 00:41:58,640
we could we are blessed with the

1210
00:42:02,390 --> 00:42:00,880
information that interstellar flight is

1211
00:42:06,230 --> 00:42:02,400
possible

1212
00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:06,240
distances and the technology we possess

1213
00:42:09,589 --> 00:42:07,440
at the time

1214
00:42:11,030 --> 00:42:09,599
we just can't really do it

1215
00:42:12,470 --> 00:42:11,040
but if somebody else has figured out how

1216
00:42:13,829 --> 00:42:12,480
to do it that means there's a means to

1217
00:42:16,390 --> 00:42:13,839
it and then we begin looking for the

1218
00:42:18,150 --> 00:42:16,400
means rather than not looking whatsoever

1219
00:42:19,510 --> 00:42:18,160
and i think that's one of the important

1220
00:42:20,630 --> 00:42:19,520
things that comes out of that is

1221
00:42:22,390 --> 00:42:20,640
learning

1222
00:42:24,309 --> 00:42:22,400
something new about that it tells us

1223
00:42:25,430 --> 00:42:24,319
that we're not alone in the universe but

1224
00:42:28,390 --> 00:42:25,440
it also

1225
00:42:31,750 --> 00:42:28,400
suggests a way that we may be able to

1226
00:42:33,430 --> 00:42:31,760
explore part of our galaxy ourselves

1227
00:42:35,430 --> 00:42:33,440
uh and i think that's one of the

1228
00:42:36,870 --> 00:42:35,440
important things to come out of it and

1229
00:42:38,870 --> 00:42:36,880
we get hints

1230
00:42:40,069 --> 00:42:38,880
about it we learned that the air force

1231
00:42:42,470 --> 00:42:40,079
at one time was going to set up

1232
00:42:43,750 --> 00:42:42,480
spectroscopic cameras around the country

1233
00:42:45,510 --> 00:42:43,760
to see if they could photograph the

1234
00:42:47,670 --> 00:42:45,520
light coming from ufos and get a

1235
00:42:49,990 --> 00:42:47,680
spectroscopic analysis i'm not sure

1236
00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:50,000
exactly what that would have

1237
00:42:53,670 --> 00:42:51,920
revealed to them but it might have given

1238
00:42:54,550 --> 00:42:53,680
them a hint about the propulsion systems

1239
00:42:56,069 --> 00:42:54,560
you know

1240
00:42:59,670 --> 00:42:56,079
something like that

1241
00:43:02,069 --> 00:42:59,680
or or if we got a glowing object the the

1242
00:43:04,390 --> 00:43:02,079
metallic structure of the craft i don't

1243
00:43:07,109 --> 00:43:04,400
know what all it would have told us if

1244
00:43:09,349 --> 00:43:07,119
they had the cameras out and located uh

1245
00:43:11,270 --> 00:43:09,359
we might have gotten photographs of the

1246
00:43:12,950 --> 00:43:11,280
object independently from two or three

1247
00:43:15,270 --> 00:43:12,960
locations and that would tell us a great

1248
00:43:16,950 --> 00:43:15,280
deal about its capabilities how high was

1249
00:43:18,550 --> 00:43:16,960
it flying how fast it was going how

1250
00:43:20,950 --> 00:43:18,560
large was it all those sorts of things

1251
00:43:22,950 --> 00:43:20,960
we could have defined from a proper

1252
00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:22,960
investigation and you can see in the

1253
00:43:26,710 --> 00:43:24,640
project blue book files as we look

1254
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:26,720
through those these sorts of things were

1255
00:43:30,470 --> 00:43:27,920
attempted

1256
00:43:32,150 --> 00:43:30,480
uh but only haphazardly they were gonna

1257
00:43:35,670 --> 00:43:32,160
put out some cameras but well we got one

1258
00:43:37,270 --> 00:43:35,680
camera so that's not much uh ed rupelt

1259
00:43:38,950 --> 00:43:37,280
who was the

1260
00:43:41,430 --> 00:43:38,960
head chief of project blue book at one

1261
00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:41,440
time talked about the green fireballs

1262
00:43:45,270 --> 00:43:42,960
which were seen over

1263
00:43:47,510 --> 00:43:45,280
the desert southwest in great numbers in

1264
00:43:49,589 --> 00:43:47,520
the late 1940s and they were going to

1265
00:43:51,910 --> 00:43:49,599
set up cameras to photograph the green

1266
00:43:53,270 --> 00:43:51,920
fireballs apparently they did set up a

1267
00:43:54,390 --> 00:43:53,280
camera and apparently they got pictures

1268
00:43:56,069 --> 00:43:54,400
because there's hints to it but the

1269
00:43:57,430 --> 00:43:56,079
pictures never show up

1270
00:43:58,790 --> 00:43:57,440
we don't know where the pictures went we

1271
00:44:00,390 --> 00:43:58,800
don't know who has those pictures we

1272
00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:00,400
don't know where they went

1273
00:44:06,710 --> 00:44:04,000
if we do have a crashed ufo as as

1274
00:44:09,349 --> 00:44:06,720
roswell seems to suggest and we can't

1275
00:44:10,950 --> 00:44:09,359
figure out how it works

1276
00:44:12,870 --> 00:44:10,960
then we take a big step over our

1277
00:44:14,550 --> 00:44:12,880
competitors in the world

1278
00:44:16,390 --> 00:44:14,560
but we also learn how to travel

1279
00:44:19,270 --> 00:44:16,400
interstellar distances

1280
00:44:21,990 --> 00:44:19,280
and i think the technology may be so far

1281
00:44:24,069 --> 00:44:22,000
beyond our capability to understand at

1282
00:44:26,390 --> 00:44:24,079
this point we haven't figured it out and

1283
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:26,400
the best example it worked much better

1284
00:44:30,390 --> 00:44:29,520
in the 1990s is if you take a vcr

1285
00:45:15,349 --> 00:44:30,400
a

1286
00:45:16,550 --> 00:45:15,359
don't think we figured much of it out

1287
00:45:18,230 --> 00:45:16,560
yet

1288
00:45:20,069 --> 00:45:18,240
people who listen to the podcasts will

1289
00:45:22,150 --> 00:45:20,079
appreciate i like a good analogy so i

1290
00:45:23,829 --> 00:45:22,160
like that melon one i'll probably steal

1291
00:45:25,430 --> 00:45:23,839
that going forward at times kevin if you

1292
00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:25,440
don't mind

1293
00:45:29,910 --> 00:45:28,160
just credit me with it oh always always

1294
00:45:32,069 --> 00:45:29,920
give credit always well and if i don't

1295
00:45:33,670 --> 00:45:32,079
people can fill me up on that

1296
00:45:35,510 --> 00:45:33,680
you've mentioned there obviously some

1297
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:35,520
common factors is there anything you've

1298
00:45:39,510 --> 00:45:37,200
noticed in your years of writing

1299
00:45:41,589 --> 00:45:39,520
investigation and research that have

1300
00:45:43,430 --> 00:45:41,599
given you any clues as to the crafts

1301
00:45:45,670 --> 00:45:43,440
origin you've mentioned interstellar

1302
00:45:48,150 --> 00:45:45,680
travel people potentially visiting from

1303
00:45:49,750 --> 00:45:48,160
different galaxies what for you is the

1304
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:49,760
your best somebody you can put together

1305
00:45:54,069 --> 00:45:52,319
of what this phenomenon may be

1306
00:45:55,430 --> 00:45:54,079
i would say it's not interplanetary

1307
00:45:56,950 --> 00:45:55,440
meaning it doesn't come from inside the

1308
00:45:58,309 --> 00:45:56,960
solar system because we pretty well

1309
00:45:59,990 --> 00:45:58,319
surveyed

1310
00:46:01,990 --> 00:46:00,000
all the bodies in the solar system that

1311
00:46:03,510 --> 00:46:02,000
could have intelligent life on it

1312
00:46:07,030 --> 00:46:03,520
producing these sorts of things and we

1313
00:46:09,910 --> 00:46:07,040
realize that jupiter and saturn are

1314
00:46:13,829 --> 00:46:09,920
impossible the same with uranus and uh

1315
00:46:15,670 --> 00:46:13,839
neptune pluto is way out there in a cold

1316
00:46:17,990 --> 00:46:15,680
world there's really nothing apparently

1317
00:46:20,950 --> 00:46:18,000
on mars venus you land your spacecraft

1318
00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:20,960
on venus and it's going to melt and

1319
00:46:25,270 --> 00:46:23,040
mercury is kind of out of the question

1320
00:46:27,510 --> 00:46:25,280
some of the moons around the the planets

1321
00:46:29,910 --> 00:46:27,520
tighten for example around site it's

1322
00:46:34,150 --> 00:46:32,230
would be more earth-like but then you've

1323
00:46:35,349 --> 00:46:34,160
got a problem with

1324
00:46:37,589 --> 00:46:35,359
the

1325
00:46:38,950 --> 00:46:37,599
temperatures and things like that so i

1326
00:46:39,990 --> 00:46:38,960
think i think we've pretty well ruled

1327
00:46:41,670 --> 00:46:40,000
out

1328
00:46:44,710 --> 00:46:41,680
interplanetary flight and i think in the

1329
00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:44,720
1950s and late 1940s 1950s they were

1330
00:46:48,150 --> 00:46:46,240
thinking in terms of interplanetary

1331
00:46:50,630 --> 00:46:48,160
flight as opposed to interstellar

1332
00:46:51,990 --> 00:46:50,640
when we move beyond that

1333
00:46:53,670 --> 00:46:52,000
i would guess

1334
00:46:54,630 --> 00:46:53,680
and it's only a guess

1335
00:46:57,270 --> 00:46:54,640
that

1336
00:46:59,190 --> 00:46:57,280
they would come from within our

1337
00:47:00,150 --> 00:46:59,200
galactic neighborhood

1338
00:47:02,309 --> 00:47:00,160
um

1339
00:47:04,150 --> 00:47:02,319
100 light years away

1340
00:47:05,510 --> 00:47:04,160
50 light years away i don't know how

1341
00:47:06,309 --> 00:47:05,520
fast they can travel i don't know how

1342
00:47:11,109 --> 00:47:06,319
they

1343
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:11,119
the galaxy in a matter of hours

1344
00:47:15,670 --> 00:47:14,160
based on their technology or a way of

1345
00:47:16,630 --> 00:47:15,680
warping space

1346
00:47:18,790 --> 00:47:16,640
to

1347
00:47:20,870 --> 00:47:18,800
shorten those distances i don't know and

1348
00:47:22,470 --> 00:47:20,880
i and if i had an answer to that i'd be

1349
00:47:25,829 --> 00:47:22,480
really really rich

1350
00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:25,839
and i wouldn't be doing podcasts

1351
00:47:29,349 --> 00:47:27,760
i'd be on my mega yacht having a good

1352
00:47:31,349 --> 00:47:29,359
time somewhere

1353
00:47:33,430 --> 00:47:31,359
or flying around in my private air cl

1354
00:47:34,630 --> 00:47:33,440
aircraft uh flipping off people i don't

1355
00:47:36,470 --> 00:47:34,640
know

1356
00:47:39,349 --> 00:47:36,480
but but i mean the point is i i really

1357
00:47:41,829 --> 00:47:39,359
don't know we used to say that the only

1358
00:47:43,589 --> 00:47:41,839
real clue we had was from the betty hill

1359
00:47:44,309 --> 00:47:43,599
star map from her

1360
00:47:46,950 --> 00:47:44,319
and

1361
00:47:50,230 --> 00:47:46,960
barney hill's abduction in the in 1961

1362
00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:50,240
and she produced this star map and

1363
00:47:54,950 --> 00:47:52,960
marjorie fish created a 3d model and

1364
00:47:57,270 --> 00:47:54,960
pegged it as being zeta one zeta two

1365
00:47:58,790 --> 00:47:57,280
reticuli which is a double star system

1366
00:48:01,549 --> 00:47:58,800
some

1367
00:48:05,670 --> 00:48:01,559
30 37 38 point light

1368
00:48:08,870 --> 00:48:07,510
but that information is

1369
00:48:09,990 --> 00:48:08,880
flawed

1370
00:48:11,910 --> 00:48:10,000
because

1371
00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:11,920
according to betty hill it was a 3d

1372
00:48:16,390 --> 00:48:14,240
representation she saw and she was she

1373
00:48:18,069 --> 00:48:16,400
was drawing it in two dimensions so that

1374
00:48:20,309 --> 00:48:18,079
would have distorted it

1375
00:48:22,470 --> 00:48:20,319
marjorie fish when she did her work

1376
00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:22,480
eliminated all red dwarf stars because

1377
00:48:25,430 --> 00:48:23,440
she

1378
00:48:27,510 --> 00:48:25,440
deduced there would be nothing around a

1379
00:48:29,990 --> 00:48:27,520
red dwarf that would have be of interest

1380
00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:30,000
to a space-faring race and my counter

1381
00:48:33,829 --> 00:48:31,920
argument would be that there may not be

1382
00:48:35,750 --> 00:48:33,839
any civilized planets around that but

1383
00:48:37,510 --> 00:48:35,760
there may be some element

1384
00:48:39,349 --> 00:48:37,520
that is crucial for them that they could

1385
00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:39,359
find in one or two of these systems so

1386
00:48:44,710 --> 00:48:41,200
it may be important for them to look at

1387
00:48:50,790 --> 00:48:47,750
there has been some work done suggesting

1388
00:48:53,990 --> 00:48:50,800
better distances to those

1389
00:48:57,829 --> 00:48:54,000
planet or those star systems that

1390
00:49:01,750 --> 00:48:59,589
are not where she thought they were so

1391
00:49:03,589 --> 00:49:01,760
the star map is kind of distorted there

1392
00:49:05,589 --> 00:49:03,599
but that was the only clue we really had

1393
00:49:07,829 --> 00:49:05,599
if you remember the movie alien

1394
00:49:10,150 --> 00:49:07,839
the star system they go into is zeta 1

1395
00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:10,160
zeta 2 reticuli they mentioned that i

1396
00:49:13,190 --> 00:49:12,000
caught that some years later as i was

1397
00:49:14,549 --> 00:49:13,200
watching the movie said oh my god

1398
00:49:16,790 --> 00:49:14,559
they're there

1399
00:49:17,829 --> 00:49:16,800
and and that's where the they found the

1400
00:49:20,230 --> 00:49:17,839
alien

1401
00:49:22,230 --> 00:49:20,240
but i don't think that's relevant

1402
00:49:23,910 --> 00:49:22,240
but i i really don't know and i i just

1403
00:49:27,190 --> 00:49:23,920
can't say i i would say that they come

1404
00:49:29,109 --> 00:49:27,200
from inside our galaxy our galaxy is 110

1405
00:49:31,190 --> 00:49:29,119
000 light years across and 30 000 light

1406
00:49:33,030 --> 00:49:31,200
years deep or something like that and

1407
00:49:34,790 --> 00:49:33,040
we're on the outer edges the fringes of

1408
00:49:36,470 --> 00:49:34,800
the galaxy

1409
00:49:37,910 --> 00:49:36,480
uh so you could be talking about

1410
00:49:39,430 --> 00:49:37,920
somebody who's a hundred thousand light

1411
00:49:40,790 --> 00:49:39,440
years away and then you move to other

1412
00:49:42,790 --> 00:49:40,800
galaxies

1413
00:49:45,190 --> 00:49:42,800
i think the nearest galaxy is andromeda

1414
00:49:47,589 --> 00:49:45,200
and it's about 2.5 million light years

1415
00:49:49,510 --> 00:49:47,599
away so i can't see him traversing that

1416
00:49:51,589 --> 00:49:49,520
distance but if there's a way of bending

1417
00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:51,599
space maybe it is all things are

1418
00:49:54,630 --> 00:49:53,440
possible i don't know

1419
00:49:56,069 --> 00:49:54,640
so i don't know where they're coming

1420
00:49:57,190 --> 00:49:56,079
that's a long-winded answer to say i

1421
00:49:58,549 --> 00:49:57,200
don't know

1422
00:50:00,549 --> 00:49:58,559
no that's fair enough but you know what

1423
00:50:03,109 --> 00:50:00,559
gives me a little bit of hope is like

1424
00:50:05,270 --> 00:50:03,119
you say when you think about it it seems

1425
00:50:07,349 --> 00:50:05,280
impossible and incomprehensible that we

1426
00:50:09,349 --> 00:50:07,359
could traverse that that distance that

1427
00:50:11,030 --> 00:50:09,359
level of space but like you see when

1428
00:50:13,190 --> 00:50:11,040
merlin saw the videotape and saw that

1429
00:50:14,790 --> 00:50:13,200
black ribbon and then saw pictures on a

1430
00:50:16,630 --> 00:50:14,800
screen that would have seemed impossible

1431
00:50:18,870 --> 00:50:16,640
as well so there just might be that

1432
00:50:21,190 --> 00:50:18,880
something that one day is really common

1433
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:21,200
that we don't quite understand yet

1434
00:50:24,549 --> 00:50:22,640
what i would like to put to kevin just

1435
00:50:26,390 --> 00:50:24,559
before we get to some listener questions

1436
00:50:28,549 --> 00:50:26,400
i heard you on on hubbard hughes

1437
00:50:30,870 --> 00:50:28,559
unexplained radio show a couple of weeks

1438
00:50:32,549 --> 00:50:30,880
ago and you said you've there's been a

1439
00:50:34,390 --> 00:50:32,559
lot of progress people have talked about

1440
00:50:35,910 --> 00:50:34,400
that has been made in recent years and

1441
00:50:37,750 --> 00:50:35,920
some folks are getting really excited

1442
00:50:39,510 --> 00:50:37,760
we're going to get some form of

1443
00:50:41,589 --> 00:50:39,520
disclosure from the government something

1444
00:50:43,670 --> 00:50:41,599
like that but you said like others have

1445
00:50:45,589 --> 00:50:43,680
that you've seen this before you've

1446
00:50:47,910 --> 00:50:45,599
experienced this that it's it's

1447
00:50:49,190 --> 00:50:47,920
potentially going to just fizzle away

1448
00:50:50,549 --> 00:50:49,200
the government are going to keep things

1449
00:50:52,309 --> 00:50:50,559
classified they're not going to get the

1450
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:52,319
reports that are due

1451
00:50:57,190 --> 00:50:54,480
is there anything you have seen that you

1452
00:50:58,790 --> 00:50:57,200
think maybe this time something could or

1453
00:51:01,030 --> 00:50:58,800
may be a little bit different that we

1454
00:51:02,790 --> 00:51:01,040
get some form of progress on this

1455
00:51:04,470 --> 00:51:02,800
subject

1456
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:04,480
you have to look at it from the point of

1457
00:51:07,750 --> 00:51:06,240
view of the deep state and you have to

1458
00:51:09,270 --> 00:51:07,760
look at from the point of view of the

1459
00:51:11,510 --> 00:51:09,280
purpose of the deep state is to keep the

1460
00:51:14,230 --> 00:51:11,520
deep state in power and keep those in

1461
00:51:15,990 --> 00:51:14,240
those positions of power well financed

1462
00:51:17,349 --> 00:51:16,000
and they have no motivation to release

1463
00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:17,359
the information there's absolutely

1464
00:51:20,790 --> 00:51:19,440
nothing they gain by releasing the

1465
00:51:22,870 --> 00:51:20,800
information and in fact it could

1466
00:51:24,549 --> 00:51:22,880
undercut their power i did a book called

1467
00:51:26,950 --> 00:51:24,559
ufos in the deep state that came out

1468
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:26,960
what a year ago something like that

1469
00:51:31,030 --> 00:51:29,040
and looked at this in depth and you know

1470
00:51:33,349 --> 00:51:31,040
people say why they continue to keep it

1471
00:51:34,950 --> 00:51:33,359
classified and if you look at the way at

1472
00:51:37,190 --> 00:51:34,960
least our government works here in the

1473
00:51:39,670 --> 00:51:37,200
united states

1474
00:51:42,150 --> 00:51:39,680
you have a transition of power

1475
00:51:45,510 --> 00:51:42,160
at the very top the president every

1476
00:51:47,349 --> 00:51:45,520
every eight years at least

1477
00:51:49,190 --> 00:51:47,359
sometimes it's only four years sometimes

1478
00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:49,200
it's eight years depending on the

1479
00:51:52,870 --> 00:51:51,520
president uh and and

1480
00:51:54,710 --> 00:51:52,880
the elections

1481
00:51:56,549 --> 00:51:54,720
but the people

1482
00:51:58,470 --> 00:51:56,559
they bring into the government you see

1483
00:52:00,630 --> 00:51:58,480
the names coming up again and again and

1484
00:52:02,790 --> 00:52:00,640
again uh people who were in the clinton

1485
00:52:05,030 --> 00:52:02,800
administration in the 1990s are showing

1486
00:52:06,870 --> 00:52:05,040
up in the biden administration

1487
00:52:09,910 --> 00:52:06,880
in some of the top level spots and the

1488
00:52:12,390 --> 00:52:09,920
bureaucrats stay there all the time you

1489
00:52:14,870 --> 00:52:12,400
know so bureaucrats who came to came to

1490
00:52:17,109 --> 00:52:14,880
work in um the clinton administration

1491
00:52:20,150 --> 00:52:17,119
may are still working in their positions

1492
00:52:21,589 --> 00:52:20,160
in the in the biden administration

1493
00:52:23,670 --> 00:52:21,599
and they want to maintain their power

1494
00:52:25,910 --> 00:52:23,680
and maintain their elite status and i

1495
00:52:28,790 --> 00:52:25,920
think that's one of the reasons we see

1496
00:52:31,589 --> 00:52:28,800
the persistence of the secrecy

1497
00:52:32,870 --> 00:52:31,599
anytime a technologically advanced

1498
00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:32,880
civilization

1499
00:52:43,109 --> 00:52:40,480
exist not necessarily through contact or

1500
00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:43,119
warfare warfare or

1501
00:52:48,390 --> 00:52:46,720
conquest the mere contact and there's a

1502
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:48,400
bet a really great example from

1503
00:52:53,270 --> 00:52:50,640
anthropological history where

1504
00:52:55,829 --> 00:52:53,280
anthropologists went to

1505
00:52:57,750 --> 00:52:55,839
study a primitive tribe and the tribe

1506
00:52:59,109 --> 00:52:57,760
have an underlying sociological

1507
00:53:01,750 --> 00:52:59,119
structure

1508
00:53:04,230 --> 00:53:01,760
where if you needed a stone axe you had

1509
00:53:06,630 --> 00:53:04,240
to go through a ritual or a series of

1510
00:53:10,549 --> 00:53:06,640
steps to get permission from the leaders

1511
00:53:12,390 --> 00:53:10,559
of that society to use the stone axe

1512
00:53:14,790 --> 00:53:12,400
the anthropologist brought a number of

1513
00:53:17,270 --> 00:53:14,800
steel axes with him and to induce people

1514
00:53:19,270 --> 00:53:17,280
to talk with him about their society and

1515
00:53:21,750 --> 00:53:19,280
things like that he'd give them a steel

1516
00:53:23,510 --> 00:53:21,760
axe he has now undercut one of the

1517
00:53:26,230 --> 00:53:23,520
underpinnings of that society

1518
00:53:28,549 --> 00:53:26,240
unintentionally but he radically altered

1519
00:53:30,790 --> 00:53:28,559
that society by in the introduction of a

1520
00:53:34,630 --> 00:53:30,800
steel axe which is a far superior

1521
00:53:37,349 --> 00:53:34,640
device than a stone axe and i think they

1522
00:53:39,030 --> 00:53:37,359
understand this that the mir

1523
00:53:40,470 --> 00:53:39,040
presence of this technology would

1524
00:53:43,430 --> 00:53:40,480
radically alter

1525
00:53:45,670 --> 00:53:43,440
our civilizations around the world and

1526
00:53:47,910 --> 00:53:45,680
if they introduce any of that technology

1527
00:53:49,910 --> 00:53:47,920
to us it's going to change the power

1528
00:53:51,670 --> 00:53:49,920
structure i think they fear that

1529
00:53:53,030 --> 00:53:51,680
i think the only way we're going to get

1530
00:53:54,870 --> 00:53:53,040
disclosure

1531
00:53:57,109 --> 00:53:54,880
is if the

1532
00:53:58,069 --> 00:53:57,119
alien creatures decide it's time to let

1533
00:54:00,150 --> 00:53:58,079
us know

1534
00:54:01,510 --> 00:54:00,160
and they land somewhere where the

1535
00:54:02,710 --> 00:54:01,520
government can't

1536
00:54:05,750 --> 00:54:02,720
cover it up

1537
00:54:07,430 --> 00:54:05,760
and the news media is there to

1538
00:54:09,349 --> 00:54:07,440
interview them of course we have to be

1539
00:54:10,870 --> 00:54:09,359
careful we don't end up with to serve

1540
00:54:13,430 --> 00:54:10,880
man which was a wonderful twilight

1541
00:54:14,710 --> 00:54:13,440
episode

1542
00:54:15,589 --> 00:54:14,720
but

1543
00:54:22,790 --> 00:54:15,599
the

1544
00:54:25,510 --> 00:54:22,800
motivation

1545
00:54:27,430 --> 00:54:25,520
by those in power to reveal the

1546
00:54:29,670 --> 00:54:27,440
information they have about ufos and we

1547
00:54:32,470 --> 00:54:29,680
have hints about how extraordinary this

1548
00:54:34,150 --> 00:54:32,480
information is because we can see it in

1549
00:54:35,750 --> 00:54:34,160
the way they bungled the investigation

1550
00:54:37,990 --> 00:54:35,760
but the information we've been able to

1551
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:38,000
gather since then that shows where their

1552
00:54:41,829 --> 00:54:39,359
mistakes were made how they were

1553
00:54:43,510 --> 00:54:41,839
manipulating the data to keep us all in

1554
00:54:45,349 --> 00:54:43,520
the dark and it starts it starts

1555
00:54:46,470 --> 00:54:45,359
essentially in the united states with

1556
00:54:49,109 --> 00:54:46,480
roswell

1557
00:54:50,630 --> 00:54:49,119
and it continues on from that we had the

1558
00:55:10,390 --> 00:54:50,640
the

1559
00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:10,400
scientific investigation of ufos and yet

1560
00:55:14,470 --> 00:55:12,319
the conclusions were written before the

1561
00:55:15,589 --> 00:55:14,480
investigation began an air force officer

1562
00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:15,599
wrote to

1563
00:55:18,309 --> 00:55:17,200
uh the conduct committee and said here's

1564
00:55:20,470 --> 00:55:18,319
what we'd like you to find and they

1565
00:55:21,910 --> 00:55:20,480
wrote back say yeah we can do that i've

1566
00:55:25,950 --> 00:55:21,920
got the letter

1567
00:55:28,870 --> 00:55:27,430
www.kevinrental.blogspot.com just type

1568
00:55:31,030 --> 00:55:28,880
in hitler letter and it'll take you to

1569
00:55:33,670 --> 00:55:31,040
that information

1570
00:55:34,789 --> 00:55:33,680
i'll put the blog address and uh i'm

1571
00:55:36,789 --> 00:55:34,799
just making a note of that now for the

1572
00:55:38,630 --> 00:55:36,799
listeners because i tend to forget those

1573
00:55:40,950 --> 00:55:38,640
in the description of the podcast as

1574
00:55:42,390 --> 00:55:40,960
well folks and listen on that kevin time

1575
00:55:44,710 --> 00:55:42,400
will tell hopefully we do get that

1576
00:55:46,710 --> 00:55:44,720
progress but i've said on the podcast

1577
00:55:48,150 --> 00:55:46,720
before i completely understand folks who

1578
00:55:50,230 --> 00:55:48,160
have been in this involved in this

1579
00:55:51,510 --> 00:55:50,240
subject for a lot longer than myself and

1580
00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:51,520
others who listen

1581
00:55:55,510 --> 00:55:53,920
that why they they are trepidatious and

1582
00:55:57,670 --> 00:55:55,520
why they say that they've seen this kind

1583
00:55:59,349 --> 00:55:57,680
of thing happen before so hopefully we

1584
00:56:01,589 --> 00:55:59,359
get something different but i can see

1585
00:56:03,190 --> 00:56:01,599
both points of view um let's get to some

1586
00:56:05,109 --> 00:56:03,200
listener questions kevin and the time we

1587
00:56:07,589 --> 00:56:05,119
have remaining um the first question is

1588
00:56:09,829 --> 00:56:07,599
from matt and matt wants to know did the

1589
00:56:11,829 --> 00:56:09,839
egg-shaped objects at level and give off

1590
00:56:14,230 --> 00:56:11,839
any noises

1591
00:56:15,990 --> 00:56:14,240
there was discussion of people hearing

1592
00:56:18,069 --> 00:56:16,000
sounds yes there was some it wasn't

1593
00:56:20,230 --> 00:56:18,079
universal but they did hear roars they

1594
00:56:22,470 --> 00:56:20,240
hear did hear sounds yes there is there

1595
00:56:24,630 --> 00:56:22,480
was noise given off

1596
00:56:26,470 --> 00:56:24,640
not only the electromagnetic effects but

1597
00:56:28,470 --> 00:56:26,480
also noise and and of course the very

1598
00:56:30,789 --> 00:56:28,480
bright lights

1599
00:56:32,309 --> 00:56:30,799
was the noise reported as mechanical

1600
00:56:34,870 --> 00:56:32,319
like you said a roar would it be

1601
00:56:37,190 --> 00:56:34,880
something more mechanical or no it was

1602
00:56:39,990 --> 00:56:37,200
more of a roar more i think you more

1603
00:56:41,589 --> 00:56:40,000
aligned with a jet engine type thing

1604
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:41,599
but it was that kind of thing and not

1605
00:56:45,750 --> 00:56:44,160
everybody reported sound

1606
00:56:48,549 --> 00:56:45,760
and i think as well you mentioned

1607
00:56:50,710 --> 00:56:48,559
earlier about perception and at the time

1608
00:56:52,230 --> 00:56:50,720
that people knew about flying saucers

1609
00:56:54,230 --> 00:56:52,240
from the headlines in early science

1610
00:56:55,990 --> 00:56:54,240
fiction but it would have still been

1611
00:56:57,109 --> 00:56:56,000
very much one's interpretation of what

1612
00:57:00,069 --> 00:56:57,119
they were hearing or what they were

1613
00:57:03,030 --> 00:57:00,079
seeing not like now because we've got 75

1614
00:57:04,309 --> 00:57:03,040
years of of stories and books and we've

1615
00:57:05,829 --> 00:57:04,319
got hollywood movies that we can

1616
00:57:07,750 --> 00:57:05,839
interpret these things a little bit

1617
00:57:10,150 --> 00:57:07,760
easier so it still could have been

1618
00:57:12,150 --> 00:57:10,160
something maybe a bit more because a jet

1619
00:57:13,910 --> 00:57:12,160
engine type noise or aurora isn't

1620
00:57:16,950 --> 00:57:13,920
normally what we associate is it with a

1621
00:57:19,750 --> 00:57:16,960
ufo or a uap you tend to associate low

1622
00:57:21,349 --> 00:57:19,760
hums or vibrations

1623
00:57:23,190 --> 00:57:21,359
well i think that you know it's it

1624
00:57:25,510 --> 00:57:23,200
really again i think it's the person and

1625
00:57:27,750 --> 00:57:25,520
how they describe describe the sounds

1626
00:57:29,430 --> 00:57:27,760
and and often times the sound is sort of

1627
00:57:32,150 --> 00:57:29,440
a secondary effect they're just not

1628
00:57:34,150 --> 00:57:32,160
really listening they're looking

1629
00:57:36,870 --> 00:57:34,160
at the thing in awe

1630
00:57:39,349 --> 00:57:36,880
you go through the reports of the people

1631
00:57:40,789 --> 00:57:39,359
carefully and you can find find hints of

1632
00:57:42,630 --> 00:57:40,799
that sort of thing it's kind of like the

1633
00:57:45,270 --> 00:57:42,640
sheriff if you go through an awful lot

1634
00:57:47,750 --> 00:57:45,280
of the books uh published

1635
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:47,760
after 1957

1636
00:57:50,710 --> 00:57:48,720
you

1637
00:57:52,309 --> 00:57:50,720
which mentioned level and it and my own

1638
00:57:53,750 --> 00:57:52,319
books do the same thing say the sheriff

1639
00:57:55,430 --> 00:57:53,760
saw it but it was just a streak of light

1640
00:57:56,789 --> 00:57:55,440
in the distance and now i got into it in

1641
00:57:58,230 --> 00:57:56,799
depth and it's not a streak of light in

1642
00:57:59,670 --> 00:57:58,240
the distance it's a

1643
00:58:01,910 --> 00:57:59,680
a

1644
00:58:03,510 --> 00:58:01,920
solid object seen much closer so i think

1645
00:58:05,109 --> 00:58:03,520
we have to look at all of that sort of

1646
00:58:06,950 --> 00:58:05,119
thing sometimes it's the interpretation

1647
00:58:09,589 --> 00:58:06,960
of the witnesses sometimes it's the

1648
00:58:11,430 --> 00:58:09,599
interpretation of the writers who are

1649
00:58:14,390 --> 00:58:11,440
reporting on the story sometimes it's

1650
00:58:16,470 --> 00:58:14,400
the the government uh changing things

1651
00:58:19,030 --> 00:58:16,480
around a little bit and and the writers

1652
00:58:21,109 --> 00:58:19,040
do that too they they assume things

1653
00:58:22,789 --> 00:58:21,119
um based on what they're reading they're

1654
00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:22,799
put their own interpretations on it and

1655
00:58:26,390 --> 00:58:24,480
sometimes if those interpretations are

1656
00:58:28,789 --> 00:58:26,400
wrong the next guy who's reading out

1657
00:58:30,630 --> 00:58:28,799
puts that same interpretation on it

1658
00:58:31,990 --> 00:58:30,640
because he read it in another book and

1659
00:58:33,510 --> 00:58:32,000
that's why i do something called chasing

1660
00:58:34,789 --> 00:58:33,520
footnotes periodically you read

1661
00:58:36,230 --> 00:58:34,799
something about

1662
00:58:37,510 --> 00:58:36,240
in a book and there's a footnote so you

1663
00:58:39,670 --> 00:58:37,520
looked at well what's that footnote

1664
00:58:41,109 --> 00:58:39,680
saying you go to that source which may

1665
00:58:42,309 --> 00:58:41,119
lead you to another source which leads

1666
00:58:44,069 --> 00:58:42,319
you to another source which finally

1667
00:58:46,150 --> 00:58:44,079
leads you to the original source and the

1668
00:58:48,069 --> 00:58:46,160
original source story is not quite the

1669
00:58:49,829 --> 00:58:48,079
same as been reported in the in the

1670
00:58:51,910 --> 00:58:49,839
latest book so you have to look at all

1671
00:58:53,430 --> 00:58:51,920
of those sorts of things as well

1672
00:58:55,109 --> 00:58:53,440
it's a really interesting point i think

1673
00:58:56,870 --> 00:58:55,119
many of us like you say would take that

1674
00:58:58,710 --> 00:58:56,880
at face value and say yep this is what's

1675
00:59:00,710 --> 00:58:58,720
written there's a footnote and like you

1676
00:59:02,390 --> 00:59:00,720
see a little bit of digging and you find

1677
00:59:05,190 --> 00:59:02,400
out that that's potentially changed so

1678
00:59:07,589 --> 00:59:05,200
interesting point um mike has a question

1679
00:59:09,190 --> 00:59:07,599
during your research into the 1964

1680
00:59:11,829 --> 00:59:09,200
lonnie zamora incident that occurred

1681
00:59:13,510 --> 00:59:11,839
near sirocco new mexico did you hear

1682
00:59:15,750 --> 00:59:13,520
anything about lonnie zamora having a

1683
00:59:16,870 --> 00:59:15,760
telepathic experience

1684
00:59:19,829 --> 00:59:16,880
no

1685
00:59:21,510 --> 00:59:19,839
there's anything to that i did hear that

1686
00:59:22,789 --> 00:59:21,520
he was supposedly a drunk but that's not

1687
00:59:24,870 --> 00:59:22,799
true either i think that was another way

1688
00:59:26,870 --> 00:59:24,880
of belittling the um

1689
00:59:28,789 --> 00:59:26,880
the sighting lonnie zamora was a very

1690
00:59:31,030 --> 00:59:28,799
quiet religious man

1691
00:59:33,510 --> 00:59:31,040
and i think this experience frightening

1692
00:59:35,910 --> 00:59:33,520
frightened him it's a coral

1693
00:59:38,309 --> 00:59:35,920
experience frightened him but in in the

1694
00:59:40,390 --> 00:59:38,319
book i did on socorro we look at in

1695
00:59:42,309 --> 00:59:40,400
depth some of the explanations for it we

1696
00:59:44,549 --> 00:59:42,319
find out something else that's important

1697
00:59:48,069 --> 00:59:44,559
is it's not a single witness case there

1698
00:59:51,190 --> 00:59:48,079
are other witnesses that that uh

1699
00:59:53,270 --> 00:59:51,200
witnessed aspects of the case either

1700
00:59:54,710 --> 00:59:53,280
just before zamora's

1701
00:59:56,789 --> 00:59:54,720
sighting or

1702
00:59:58,950 --> 00:59:56,799
hours afterwards sometimes it's just a

1703
01:00:00,549 --> 00:59:58,960
roar in the sky or a blue flame in the

1704
01:00:01,829 --> 01:00:00,559
sky and others others it's it's

1705
01:00:04,390 --> 01:00:01,839
something much

1706
01:00:06,990 --> 01:00:04,400
better but you have to look at the whole

1707
01:00:10,470 --> 01:00:07,000
area in 19 april

1708
01:00:11,829 --> 01:00:10,480
1964 that that short period of time

1709
01:00:13,670 --> 01:00:11,839
around the sighting and you get some

1710
01:00:16,150 --> 01:00:13,680
very good information about what he had

1711
01:00:18,710 --> 01:00:16,160
seen and of course there was a big roar

1712
01:00:20,950 --> 01:00:18,720
associated with that craft

1713
01:00:22,470 --> 01:00:20,960
next question is from ryan and ryan

1714
01:00:25,349 --> 01:00:22,480
wants to know could the genetic

1715
01:00:26,549 --> 01:00:25,359
bottleneck that occurred roughly 70 000

1716
01:00:28,549 --> 01:00:26,559
years ago have been due to

1717
01:00:30,630 --> 01:00:28,559
extraterrestrial intervention

1718
01:00:32,950 --> 01:00:30,640
do you think hybridization could be a

1719
01:00:35,510 --> 01:00:32,960
goal of such intervention

1720
01:00:37,349 --> 01:00:35,520
i really don't know i haven't studied i

1721
01:00:39,829 --> 01:00:37,359
did study anthropology and i understand

1722
01:00:41,510 --> 01:00:39,839
how some of these things work but i just

1723
01:00:42,309 --> 01:00:41,520
haven't looked at that in depth it's one

1724
01:00:45,030 --> 01:00:42,319
of those

1725
01:00:46,549 --> 01:00:45,040
many many side facets of the ufo field

1726
01:00:49,670 --> 01:00:46,559
you know like crop circles and cattle

1727
01:00:51,829 --> 01:00:49,680
mutilations and abductions and all the

1728
01:00:53,750 --> 01:00:51,839
crash retrievals and i've spent most of

1729
01:00:56,549 --> 01:00:53,760
my research looking at more of the

1730
01:00:58,710 --> 01:00:56,559
contemporary sightings and the crash

1731
01:01:00,710 --> 01:00:58,720
retrievals and the sightings that have

1732
01:01:02,549 --> 01:01:00,720
multiple witnesses and multiple chains

1733
01:01:04,069 --> 01:01:02,559
of evidence as opposed to

1734
01:01:06,470 --> 01:01:04,079
looking something that's

1735
01:01:07,910 --> 01:01:06,480
very speculative about what they might

1736
01:01:11,349 --> 01:01:07,920
have done or how they might have

1737
01:01:14,069 --> 01:01:11,359
manipulated the human race at some point

1738
01:01:16,789 --> 01:01:14,079
fair enough next up is jason out in los

1739
01:01:18,789 --> 01:01:16,799
angeles asks in your opinion what would

1740
01:01:20,950 --> 01:01:18,799
be a legitimate or justifiable reason

1741
01:01:23,910 --> 01:01:20,960
for any world government to keep the

1742
01:01:25,270 --> 01:01:23,920
full truth of ufos from its citizens

1743
01:01:27,510 --> 01:01:25,280
what would be a reason that would make

1744
01:01:30,309 --> 01:01:27,520
you think yeah it's best we don't tell

1745
01:01:33,990 --> 01:01:30,319
the general public about that

1746
01:01:36,150 --> 01:01:34,000
i would have said years ago it may be a

1747
01:01:38,390 --> 01:01:36,160
religious aspect that would

1748
01:01:40,630 --> 01:01:38,400
cause undue panic

1749
01:01:42,309 --> 01:01:40,640
or the mere knowledge that there's

1750
01:01:44,470 --> 01:01:42,319
alien creatures out there that may be on

1751
01:01:46,710 --> 01:01:44,480
the brink of invading the earth

1752
01:01:48,069 --> 01:01:46,720
that would have caused panic

1753
01:01:51,109 --> 01:01:48,079
i think that

1754
01:01:53,270 --> 01:01:51,119
pretty well is untrue i i've talked to a

1755
01:01:54,630 --> 01:01:53,280
number of theologians about this and

1756
01:01:57,029 --> 01:01:54,640
they think it

1757
01:01:58,390 --> 01:01:57,039
would not affect the religions all that

1758
01:01:59,270 --> 01:01:58,400
much

1759
01:02:00,630 --> 01:01:59,280
uh

1760
01:02:02,870 --> 01:02:00,640
and i think that we're all now

1761
01:02:05,029 --> 01:02:02,880
sophisticated enough to understand that

1762
01:02:07,270 --> 01:02:05,039
if these things have been around for 75

1763
01:02:09,430 --> 01:02:07,280
or 80 years that the invasion probably

1764
01:02:11,829 --> 01:02:09,440
isn't coming anytime soon it's done

1765
01:02:14,309 --> 01:02:11,839
nothing to affect my life and my

1766
01:02:17,349 --> 01:02:14,319
so i'm not really worried about it

1767
01:02:18,549 --> 01:02:17,359
i think the motivation again you know

1768
01:02:20,069 --> 01:02:18,559
that was always a question what's the

1769
01:02:21,990 --> 01:02:20,079
motivation for the government

1770
01:02:23,829 --> 01:02:22,000
suppressing the information and i think

1771
01:02:25,270 --> 01:02:23,839
it just has to do with them maintaining

1772
01:02:27,029 --> 01:02:25,280
their own power and their fear that if

1773
01:02:29,270 --> 01:02:27,039
the information gets out it's going to

1774
01:02:30,710 --> 01:02:29,280
undermine their power in some way and

1775
01:02:32,789 --> 01:02:30,720
they're doing everything they can to

1776
01:02:34,710 --> 01:02:32,799
maintain their power and their financial

1777
01:02:37,589 --> 01:02:34,720
positions in the world

1778
01:02:39,349 --> 01:02:37,599
on a similar topic gnosis who is a big

1779
01:02:41,829 --> 01:02:39,359
contributor to the podcast on the

1780
01:02:43,349 --> 01:02:41,839
discord channel as well says kevin

1781
01:02:45,190 --> 01:02:43,359
clearly believes in a deep state

1782
01:02:47,750 --> 01:02:45,200
infrastructure that has kept the topic

1783
01:02:49,990 --> 01:02:47,760
secret over many years why have we had

1784
01:02:51,990 --> 01:02:50,000
no smoking gun whistleblowers or death

1785
01:02:53,270 --> 01:02:52,000
bed confessions do you think it's

1786
01:02:55,910 --> 01:02:53,280
because those at the top are still

1787
01:02:57,510 --> 01:02:55,920
confused by the nature of the phenomenon

1788
01:02:59,109 --> 01:02:57,520
or like you've said a little bit there

1789
01:03:01,190 --> 01:02:59,119
kevin could it just be there are dark

1790
01:03:04,630 --> 01:03:01,200
aspects to the phenomenon that create a

1791
01:03:06,630 --> 01:03:04,640
natural justification to keep it secret

1792
01:03:09,270 --> 01:03:06,640
first of all i would i would say that

1793
01:03:10,950 --> 01:03:09,280
there really are no death bed confection

1794
01:03:12,950 --> 01:03:10,960
because a deathbed confession by

1795
01:03:14,870 --> 01:03:12,960
definition must be the

1796
01:03:17,270 --> 01:03:14,880
admission of committing a crime at some

1797
01:03:18,789 --> 01:03:17,280
point in your life

1798
01:03:20,870 --> 01:03:18,799
so if you're on your deathbed and you

1799
01:03:22,870 --> 01:03:20,880
start talking about flying saucers it

1800
01:03:24,789 --> 01:03:22,880
really isn't a deathbed confession by

1801
01:03:26,309 --> 01:03:24,799
the legal definition i always like to

1802
01:03:27,990 --> 01:03:26,319
throw that out for no good reason what's

1803
01:03:31,029 --> 01:03:28,000
happening that's fair

1804
01:03:32,710 --> 01:03:31,039
but but i think i think that there have

1805
01:03:34,549 --> 01:03:32,720
been some interesting things edwin

1806
01:03:37,029 --> 01:03:34,559
easley who i mentioned earlier was a the

1807
01:03:38,870 --> 01:03:37,039
provost marshall in roswell uh literally

1808
01:03:40,710 --> 01:03:38,880
on his deathbed

1809
01:03:43,910 --> 01:03:40,720
mentioned the creatures to his family

1810
01:03:46,470 --> 01:03:43,920
and yet when that information is

1811
01:03:48,069 --> 01:03:46,480
transmitted into the public arena you

1812
01:03:50,069 --> 01:03:48,079
see the skeptics

1813
01:03:52,789 --> 01:03:50,079
doing everything in their power to

1814
01:03:54,630 --> 01:03:52,799
belittle it well you know uh

1815
01:03:57,190 --> 01:03:54,640
randall himself didn't witness him

1816
01:03:59,190 --> 01:03:57,200
saying that no i didn't but his family

1817
01:04:01,029 --> 01:03:59,200
did and this is what they told us i

1818
01:04:03,910 --> 01:04:01,039
think the problem is

1819
01:04:06,630 --> 01:04:03,920
we have not gotten somebody who's really

1820
01:04:07,430 --> 01:04:06,640
on the inside and can present some kind

1821
01:04:11,349 --> 01:04:07,440
of

1822
01:04:14,069 --> 01:04:11,359
people that have talked about that some

1823
01:04:15,029 --> 01:04:14,079
of the people's credibility is not very

1824
01:04:17,190 --> 01:04:15,039
great

1825
01:04:19,910 --> 01:04:17,200
others credibility is interesting but

1826
01:04:22,470 --> 01:04:19,920
all we have are rumors um

1827
01:04:24,470 --> 01:04:22,480
about it i think it's it's that sort of

1828
01:04:27,829 --> 01:04:24,480
thing that that we're dealing with

1829
01:04:29,750 --> 01:04:27,839
something that is basically unbelievable

1830
01:04:31,670 --> 01:04:29,760
you believe in flying sausage men from

1831
01:04:34,230 --> 01:04:31,680
other planets coming to earth that's

1832
01:04:37,270 --> 01:04:34,240
unbelievable and i think that to take

1833
01:04:38,950 --> 01:04:37,280
that step over it it requires more than

1834
01:04:41,829 --> 01:04:38,960
somebody

1835
01:04:43,910 --> 01:04:41,839
in a deathbed confession environment

1836
01:04:46,789 --> 01:04:43,920
saying yes this is what i saw and what i

1837
01:04:49,430 --> 01:04:46,799
did we need something more

1838
01:04:52,870 --> 01:04:49,440
to be presented you know if he said um

1839
01:04:54,309 --> 01:04:52,880
uh go to my safe and there's this metal

1840
01:04:56,230 --> 01:04:54,319
if you wad it up in a ball and you let

1841
01:04:57,910 --> 01:04:56,240
it go it unfolds itself well then then

1842
01:04:59,910 --> 01:04:57,920
you've got something more than just

1843
01:05:01,829 --> 01:04:59,920
their word on what happened so i think

1844
01:05:02,789 --> 01:05:01,839
that's one of the problems we run into

1845
01:05:04,549 --> 01:05:02,799
is

1846
01:05:06,390 --> 01:05:04,559
you need something more than just these

1847
01:05:08,390 --> 01:05:06,400
stores we've got lots of those stories

1848
01:05:10,069 --> 01:05:08,400
and some of them are from people who are

1849
01:05:12,150 --> 01:05:10,079
very credible and some of them are from

1850
01:05:13,990 --> 01:05:12,160
people who just really aren't very

1851
01:05:16,069 --> 01:05:14,000
credible at all

1852
01:05:17,190 --> 01:05:16,079
and final listener question from dave

1853
01:05:20,309 --> 01:05:17,200
smithers

1854
01:05:22,309 --> 01:05:20,319
what are kevin's views on usos so

1855
01:05:24,630 --> 01:05:22,319
unidentified submerged objects and the

1856
01:05:26,390 --> 01:05:24,640
possibility of underwater bases i

1857
01:05:28,069 --> 01:05:26,400
believe there was a lot of activity off

1858
01:05:29,430 --> 01:05:28,079
the coast of vietnam during that

1859
01:05:31,270 --> 01:05:29,440
conflict

1860
01:05:32,789 --> 01:05:31,280
well i i saw none of that during that

1861
01:05:33,750 --> 01:05:32,799
conflict because i was busy doing other

1862
01:05:35,029 --> 01:05:33,760
things

1863
01:05:36,870 --> 01:05:35,039
but uh

1864
01:05:38,950 --> 01:05:36,880
and and there's another subset of the

1865
01:05:41,430 --> 01:05:38,960
ufo phenomena i really haven't looked at

1866
01:05:43,190 --> 01:05:41,440
i will say the shag harbor case where

1867
01:05:45,510 --> 01:05:43,200
the thing was seen to plunge into the

1868
01:05:48,549 --> 01:05:45,520
into the ocean and i think of it as more

1869
01:05:49,990 --> 01:05:48,559
a forced landing as opposed to a crash

1870
01:05:51,589 --> 01:05:50,000
because apparently they repaired the

1871
01:05:53,109 --> 01:05:51,599
craft and they got out of there some did

1872
01:05:55,029 --> 01:05:53,119
some days later

1873
01:05:57,029 --> 01:05:55,039
i just really haven't looked at that in

1874
01:05:58,630 --> 01:05:57,039
depth but it makes sense if you have the

1875
01:06:00,630 --> 01:05:58,640
capability of traveling interstellar

1876
01:06:03,349 --> 01:06:00,640
distances you may have capability of

1877
01:06:06,470 --> 01:06:04,470
your base

1878
01:06:08,230 --> 01:06:06,480
under the ocean so it'd be very hard for

1879
01:06:10,390 --> 01:06:08,240
us to detect or on the dark side of the

1880
01:06:12,309 --> 01:06:10,400
moon or something like that but i just

1881
01:06:13,589 --> 01:06:12,319
really haven't looked into that in depth

1882
01:06:14,710 --> 01:06:13,599
at all

1883
01:06:16,230 --> 01:06:14,720
it sounds like you've got plenty of

1884
01:06:17,910 --> 01:06:16,240
books left in you so i think there's

1885
01:06:19,750 --> 01:06:17,920
some some food for thought within that

1886
01:06:21,910 --> 01:06:19,760
though kevin even if you are planning on

1887
01:06:23,190 --> 01:06:21,920
slowing down like you say listen kevin i

1888
01:06:25,430 --> 01:06:23,200
just want to ask you one more thing

1889
01:06:27,349 --> 01:06:25,440
about the book levelland what do you

1890
01:06:29,270 --> 01:06:27,359
want people to take away from reading

1891
01:06:30,950 --> 01:06:29,280
this book

1892
01:06:33,270 --> 01:06:30,960
what they ought to take away from is how

1893
01:06:35,589 --> 01:06:33,280
the government manipulated the data

1894
01:06:38,150 --> 01:06:35,599
that had we done a proper investigation

1895
01:06:40,150 --> 01:06:38,160
in 1957 we'd be having a whole different

1896
01:06:42,950 --> 01:06:40,160
conversation about i think the evidence

1897
01:06:44,630 --> 01:06:42,960
is there for something very very

1898
01:06:45,750 --> 01:06:44,640
extraterrestrial of having happened

1899
01:06:47,910 --> 01:06:45,760
there i think it's

1900
01:06:49,349 --> 01:06:47,920
ranks right below the roswell case

1901
01:06:51,990 --> 01:06:49,359
because of the number of witnesses and

1902
01:06:54,150 --> 01:06:52,000
the possibility of of good solid

1903
01:06:56,069 --> 01:06:54,160
evidence uh the interactions with the

1904
01:06:57,190 --> 01:06:56,079
environment so i think looking at that

1905
01:06:59,670 --> 01:06:57,200
and seeing how the government

1906
01:07:01,430 --> 01:06:59,680
manipulated the information and how they

1907
01:07:03,270 --> 01:07:01,440
kept us from uh

1908
01:07:05,270 --> 01:07:03,280
understanding it and i should point out

1909
01:07:08,470 --> 01:07:05,280
this was not a phenomenon related just

1910
01:07:10,870 --> 01:07:08,480
to level and texas in 1957 the book also

1911
01:07:13,190 --> 01:07:10,880
covers the french sightings from 1954 in

1912
01:07:15,829 --> 01:07:13,200
the south american sightings from 1954

1913
01:07:18,230 --> 01:07:15,839
and in fact the very first case of a

1914
01:07:19,589 --> 01:07:18,240
electromagnetic effect is from 1909 and

1915
01:07:22,309 --> 01:07:19,599
is from england

1916
01:07:23,750 --> 01:07:22,319
so we you know it covers a whole gamut

1917
01:07:25,910 --> 01:07:23,760
of of

1918
01:07:30,470 --> 01:07:25,920
this kind of thing the electromagnetic

1919
01:07:34,470 --> 01:07:32,309
kevin uh you've mentioned you've got a

1920
01:07:36,390 --> 01:07:34,480
new book coming out in march which is

1921
01:07:38,630 --> 01:07:36,400
going to be on roswell or it'll be in

1922
01:07:41,270 --> 01:07:38,640
time for the 75th anniversary i think

1923
01:07:42,870 --> 01:07:41,280
it's june by march was that right

1924
01:07:46,069 --> 01:07:42,880
i have a book coming out in march but

1925
01:07:48,150 --> 01:07:46,079
it's about project moon dust

1926
01:07:50,630 --> 01:07:48,160
and and of course level land is out now

1927
01:07:52,789 --> 01:07:50,640
and the um the roswell book will be out

1928
01:07:55,029 --> 01:07:52,799
closer to the anniversary of the of the

1929
01:07:57,349 --> 01:07:55,039
sighting in roswell which is july of 19

1930
01:07:59,990 --> 01:07:57,359
well it was in july of 1947. i think it

1931
01:08:02,630 --> 01:08:00,000
is the third book in my city's trial

1932
01:08:05,349 --> 01:08:02,640
trilogy going with roswell to socorro

1933
01:08:07,910 --> 01:08:05,359
now to and with level land so it's

1934
01:08:08,950 --> 01:08:07,920
all part of my series of

1935
01:08:10,789 --> 01:08:08,960
the

1936
01:08:12,150 --> 01:08:10,799
cities trilogy

1937
01:08:13,910 --> 01:08:12,160
well i'll have the links in the

1938
01:08:16,229 --> 01:08:13,920
description of how people can pick up

1939
01:08:17,590 --> 01:08:16,239
levelland i'll have a flying disc press

1940
01:08:19,110 --> 01:08:17,600
the links in there as well from

1941
01:08:21,110 --> 01:08:19,120
philmantle where those books are also

1942
01:08:22,630 --> 01:08:21,120
available and kevin is there any way

1943
01:08:24,709 --> 01:08:22,640
people can follow you on any form of

1944
01:08:27,590 --> 01:08:24,719
social media or would it be mainly be

1945
01:08:29,510 --> 01:08:27,600
the blog spot i i try to stay away from

1946
01:08:31,110 --> 01:08:29,520
social media because too many people say

1947
01:08:33,430 --> 01:08:31,120
too many dumb things and get themselves

1948
01:08:36,309 --> 01:08:33,440
in too much trouble

1949
01:08:38,709 --> 01:08:36,319
by posting rapidly uh the blog is

1950
01:08:40,630 --> 01:08:38,719
kevinramble.blogspot.com

1951
01:08:42,070 --> 01:08:40,640
you type a different perspective into

1952
01:08:43,990 --> 01:08:42,080
any search engine and it's usually going

1953
01:08:45,910 --> 01:08:44,000
to come up first and if you look

1954
01:08:47,189 --> 01:08:45,920
depending on the ufo sighting sometimes

1955
01:08:48,789 --> 01:08:47,199
it'll be

1956
01:08:51,510 --> 01:08:48,799
comes up on the search engine as well in

1957
01:08:52,470 --> 01:08:51,520
the first page or second page of the

1958
01:08:54,390 --> 01:08:52,480
various

1959
01:08:56,070 --> 01:08:54,400
places you can go

1960
01:08:57,349 --> 01:08:56,080
well kevin it's been wonderful speaking

1961
01:08:58,709 --> 01:08:57,359
with you and i'd love to have you on

1962
01:08:59,829 --> 01:08:58,719
again in future to talk about those

1963
01:09:02,709 --> 01:08:59,839
other books

1964
01:09:04,789 --> 01:09:02,719
okay i'd love to do it

1965
01:09:06,470 --> 01:09:04,799
that is all for this week's show thank

1966
01:09:08,309 --> 01:09:06,480
you very much for listening

1967
01:09:10,950 --> 01:09:08,319
please remember to leave the podcast a

1968
01:09:13,430 --> 01:09:10,960
review on your chosen platform you can

1969
01:09:15,590 --> 01:09:13,440
like retweet and subscribe that would

1970
01:09:17,510 --> 01:09:15,600
all be very much appreciated the shows

1971
01:09:19,349 --> 01:09:17,520
are being uploaded on youtube as we

1972
01:09:21,829 --> 01:09:19,359
speak more and more you can sign up at

1973
01:09:24,550 --> 01:09:21,839
patreon.com forward slash that ufo

1974
01:09:26,789 --> 01:09:24,560
podcast to access shows ad free as well

1975
01:09:29,590 --> 01:09:26,799
please get in touch on twitter facebook

1976
01:09:32,789 --> 01:09:29,600
instagram that ufo podcast of course on

1977
01:09:34,870 --> 01:09:32,799
twitter it's at ufouapam

1978
01:09:38,010 --> 01:09:34,880
and again folks as always keep looking

1979
01:10:05,070 --> 01:09:38,020
up you never know what you might see

1980
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:14,070
[Music]

1981
01:10:34,790 --> 01:10:15,830
i can't imagine it could have been any

1982
01:10:37,830 --> 01:10:36,070
there was something on my head and

1983
01:10:39,430 --> 01:10:37,840
everything was weird and everything was

1984
01:10:40,709 --> 01:10:39,440
red i helped out with my boys they

1985
01:10:44,130 --> 01:10:40,719
thought this was nice they thought it

1986
01:11:03,270 --> 01:10:53,370
[Music]

1987
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:07,860
and what's that

1988
01:11:36,229 --> 01:11:13,189
[Music]

1989
01:11:36,239 --> 01:11:40,229
is

1990
01:11:40,239 --> 01:11:46,060
foreign

1991
01:12:06,149 --> 01:11:52,270
[Music]

1992
01:12:32,390 --> 01:12:08,090
it's very smooth